New Adult Game? Maybe?

[Tanini]

Greetings fellow adults, I'm Tanini. I'm kind of a lurker so far as the forums go, but I was the person who wrote the Shekka milking scene and a few of the teasing scene variations for TiTS. I'm a huge fan of Fenoxo, Savin and Gedan's work. 


The reason why I'm mustering my small courage and sticking my head out at the moment is because I need some help. Recently I've come up with the idea for a new adult game. 


Gift of Life is my idea for a text based adult game much like CoC. The story would revolve around the main character quitting their job and moving from home to strike out their fortune as a monster breeder. As the player, you would start off as that main character with one npc monster out of a selection of monsters to be your first breeder. You'd come across a variety of characters, monsters, and problems in your time as a breeder. 


The main forms of monster acquisition would come in the form of hunting, and keeping some of the monsters you had bred. 


Your main forms of money acquisition would be selling the monsters, putting them to work on other tasks, and harvesting certain valuable materials that some monsters make naturally. 


This is something that I, as a person who has only played a few text based adult games, haven't really seen put into action. While there were some ways for me to sate this longing for content with the farm in CoC, I just couldn't get past the fact that I'd love to see the idea overhauled and made into its own thing. 


I want to make this game a reality, and I think that I'm capable of making it happen. Right now, the things that I am working on to get it off of the ground include the writing and the art. While the game will be text based, I love the idea of having an image as a reference for the characters you are interacting with. 


I have confidence in myself as a writer, and I have some artistic talent. However, one huge thing that I am lacking in, that I really require in order to make this happen, is a programmer. When it comes to code, I am beyond inept. If I make this product, I want it to be something that is quality, and can be enjoyed by everyone. I don't think I'd be able to make that happen on my own. So I am looking for a programmer capable of helping me make a game. 


At the moment, I am hoping to get a recommendation, though if any of you fantastic people are qualified and willing to set forth a hand, I would love to talk to you. 


Thank you so much for your time and attention. I hope Gift of Life is appealing to you. 


-Tanini


SEXUAL THEMES 


- Pregnancy


- Incest (optional)


- Lactation


-Oral


-Vaginal


-Anal


-Oviposition


-Bondage


- Macro-Mini (optional)


-Heat 


-M/M


-M/F


-F/F


-Neoteny


-Feral (dealing with wild creatures)


-Pleasure Denial


-Biting


-Licking


-Food Play

 

[karunama]

So basically a text based version of breeding season.  I could dig it.  That said, I don't have the programming knowledge you're looking for, and my own skills are mainly as an author/editor, so I'm afraid I probably can't help you at all.  Good luck though, I'll be rooting for you.  More games is always better.

 

[Tanini]

Thanks for the support. I was rather sad about breeding season being canceled, that was the closest thing to what I wanted in an adult game. I'm rather reluctant to put money toward cloud meadow. 

 

[Lightning Arc]

I think a lot of people would like that including myself so go for it.

 

[Tanini]

Thanks a lot. I'm really putting my time in on the writing now. I'm asking about a programmer early on to make sure I can get someone to start working with  before I have a huge fuckton of content and nothing to do with it.

 

[stuntcock]

At the moment, I am hoping to get a recommendation, though if any of you fantastic people are qualified and willing to set forth a hand, I would love to talk to you.

It's rare to see recommendations for individual programmers.  A game's aesthetic can be defined almost entirely by one artist's style, and a talented lead author can ensure that the whole experience strikes the desired tone.  Programmers rarely achieve that much influence on an H-game project.  A competent programmer is good for the longevity of a game (by documenting the code well and ensuring that it has good scalability, extensibility, moddability, etc), but programmers are somewhat interchangeable.


There are several notable examples of H-games which have succeeded in spite of poor or amateur programming work: Free Cities, Newlife, Jack o Nine Tails, etc.


Anyways, you'll need to provide some details about your project before we can make recommendation (and/or before anyone would expect to volunteer their own services to your project):

• rough scope and timeline for the project
  
  how many weeks or months do you expect the project to last?  If someone is shipping off to Afghanistan soon, then they'll need to know whether they can expect to complete their part of the project.
  
• how many weeks or months might the team need to wait before starting work - while you finalize recruitment, organization, legal paperwork, story outline, etc?
  

[*]technology choices

• 
  if you're attached to ren'py, or Twine, or Flash, or whatever - then please say so upfront
  
• if you're committed to keeping the whole project gratis (so that commercial tools are off-the-table) then please say so upfront
  
• if your art tools or style have implications for the game design (vector vs raster, animations, palette swapping, etc) then please say so
  
• if you plan to give the programmer full discretion over such things, then please say so
  
• which hardware platform(s) are you targeting? PC? Mac? Linux? Mobile? Web?
  
• how heavily should the design emphasize moddability and patchability?  Consider TiTs - in which save files tend to be portable across game versions.  Does you game need to offer similar flexibility?
  
• does the technology need to support multi-language testing and deployment?  Or are you content to just stick with English?
  

[*]team size

• 
  how many people to you expect to recruit, and in which roles (artists, animators, writers, testers, etc)?
  
• would the programmer be working solo, or would you potentially recruit additional people later on?  Or would they be expected to recruit additional people in order to fill out their section of the team?
  

[*]communication

• 
  do you have preferred (or pre-established) tools for organization and communication?  Email, Discord, Slack, Skype, repositories, wikis, etc
  
• would you allow the team to discuss the project publicly (on forums, personal blogs, etc) or would you expect to maintain control of any released information (for PR/marketing purposes)?
  
• how frequently would you expect to organize team meetings?  Which time zone(s) could you accommodate when scheduling meetings?
  
• could a programmer conceivably fulfill their role in this project entirely by uploading files and sending text messages?  Or would you be more comfortable with a more "live" teamwork approach (which includes voice and/or video chats)?
  

[*]distribution

• 
  how do you expect to distribute the game?  Open source?  Public demos?  Closed betas?  One big fat release when it's totally finished?
  
• how do you plan to advertise or monetize the game (if at all)?
  
• how would team members be credited or compensated for their work?  What IP rights (if any) would they retain?
  

[*]leadership

• 
  (this one might be difficult to answer if it's your first development project)
  
• it's very helpful to give people an idea of your general working habits or management style.  You could recruit a great programmer, but then the whole thing might fall apart because the two of your have conflicting personalities.
  
• how closely do you expect to monitor someone's progress?  How many days of silence would you allow before you reach out to ask them how they're doing?  How many days of AWOL would you allow before you start freaking out?
  
• what (if any) IP or legal obligations would someone need to sign over before getting started with your project?
  

 

[Tanini]

Thank you, Stuntcock. I really hadn't taken all of that into account. 

• Rough Scope Timeline 
  
  I would expect this game to take around 2-3 years before completion. 
  
  This is a high end estimate because this would be my first published game. I have no set reference of development time.
  

[*]Time to start working would be roughly two weeks. By then I think I'll have enough content to make work consistent. 


[*]Technology choices. 

• 
  I am currently unattached to any program or language. So the program in which the game is created would be to the programmers discretion. 
  
• I do not intend to keep the project gratis.
  
  My hope would be to supply players with a functional, attractive build at which time we as a team/company would open up a patreon and begin supplying steady builds and updates both to patrons, and for free. 
  
• This does mean that whomever I was working with would begin work on the project for free. Only after contributions were given by patrons would we have money with which to supply members of the team/group.
  

[*]I use Adobe Illustrator to create my art and normally use the png format, as it seems smoother and more functional to me.

[*]I would like for this game to be available on pc. If it is possible, allowing for playability on android and other mobile platforms would be fantastic, but I mainly want the game to be playable in a browser or by downloading it to your computer.

[*]I will be working in English.


[*]Team size.

• 
  For now, I'm thinking that it would be best to keep the team around 2-3 people. Depending on how the initial build is received and how well the patreon does, I might change my mind. 
  
  I would honestly love to have a team of two programmers, two writers, and an editor, but I want to try and be reasonable about things.
  

[*]Initially, whomever was chosen to program would be on their own. If possible, after providing a few working builds I would then leave it up to that programmer whether or not they would like to hire additional help with the project. 


[*]Communication

• 
  I am nearly always checking my email and I am permanently connected to discord. 
  
• I would allow discussion of the project at the discretion of the team. 
  
  I firmly believe that a strong line of communication with the player and an open mind to new ideas are the key components of good game design.
  

[*]I would expect that we all meet on discord as a team at least on a weekly basis. While I do believe that we should meet frequently, I'm rather shy. I find it hard to communicate over voice chat, so text would be preferred. However, should the programmer require verbal communication I will do my best.

[*]So far as time zones are conserned I am willing to work out a schedule. I'm not too terribly picky. I live in MST


[*]Distribution

• 
  I would like to distribute the game much the same way as Fenoxo goes about distributing builds for TiTS. 
  
  Specifically, I'd like to release backer builds however frequently new builds were ready,  while releasing a public build once every 2 weeks until late development
  
  This is only if doing so would be a practical schedule to uphold.
  

[*]Monetization would be limited to ad space on the website where the game would be hosted.

• 
  I don't believe that overrunning players with ads is a good policy, especially when backed by patrons. 
  

[*]As for PR and advertising the game itself, I believe making a banner and requesting space on other sites is probably the best way to go about it.

[*]All team members will be credited for any and all work done. 

• 
  Gift of Life would be an IP owned by us as a team/company, not any one individual.
  

[*]Any and all revenue gained from the Patreon or any other source related to Gift of Life would be split evenly among the members of the team. 


[*]Leadership

• 
  I suppose I would be the one leading the project. 
  
• When it comes to working on a project with others, I am not really a nagger. I believe in people, and if you sign up to program for me, I will ask you "When do you think ____ will be done." I will expect you to have it done by the time you say it will be unless you contact me ahead of time and tell me what changed. On the other side of that, if we are working together, I will not get snippy with you for asking me for updates. The pressure of working with another person is a strong drive for me as I believe that when I work with another person they are counting on me to fulfill my role in a quality and punctual manner. If we work together, you can expect to be as much of a drive for me as I am for you. 
  
• I will not jump down your throat every second you work. I will normally check on a person with whom I am involved once every two days if they do not get in contact with me. However, I will not freak out about a person going "AWOL" until four days of getting no response of any kind. 
  
• As I am unfamiliar with IP as a legal subject, meaning that I am unfamiliar with the majority of its legal nuances, I cannot say what IP or Legal Obligations would need to be signed over for us to work together. I should hope that you will retain every right you are not comfortable with relinquishing. 
  

 

[stuntcock]

I would expect this game to take around 2-3 years before completion. 

That's a fairly realistic estimate for total development.  However, it's tough for me to imagine a programmer working full-time on a text-based H-game for two years.  There simply isn't enough complexity behind-the-scenes.


So there are a few possible ways to tackle this problem:

• the programmer would work full-time for a while to complete the major game systems, and then settle into a long-term part-time status
  
  For example: they'd wait for the writer to complete a sex scene, and then mark up the text so that the game can splice in an appropriate pronoun (or hair color, or species, etc) at each point.
  

[*]the programmer would complete the major game systems, and would then continue to work full-time on extending and revising those systems (based on stretch goals and patron requests)

[*]the programmer would be expected to fulfill other duties (e.g. artwork, editing, website maintenance) in order to keep themselves busy

[*]the game scope would expand to include a lot of behind-the-scenes detail for the programmer to tinker with

• 
  instead of a narrative game, it would become more of a "sandbox" or "simulation"
  
• it might remain a narrative-driven game, but acquire a complex combat system.  Or a complex genetics system for breeding.  Or multiplayer features.
  

[*]the entire project would be part-time for everyone involved (ie. the 2-3 year timeline would reflect only a few months of fulltime coding)

[*]something else entirely (the preceding list is not meant to be exhaustive)

So far as time zones are conserned I am willing to work out a schedule. I'm not too terribly picky. I live in MST

This item can end up surprising you


I had collaborated with several people for years via text.  No problems at all.  Then we launched an ambitious project which required more synchronous comms, and I suddenly realized that half of them lived on a different continent.  I had simply never thought about it.  It quickly became a challenge, because someone was asleep at a moment when someone else would benefit from live troubleshooting support.  It was also difficult to organize full-attendance live meetings.


You should probably consider whether you'd be able to work effectively with someone based in Europe or Asia.  Does your lifestyle allow you to switch to a nocturnal schedule, if doing so would benefit the development project?  Would you expect one of your teammates to do the same?

• Gift of Life would be an IP owned by us as a team/company, not any one individual.
  
• As I am unfamiliar with IP as a legal subject, meaning that I am unfamiliar with the majority of its legal nuances, I cannot say what IP or Legal Obligations would need to be signed over for us to work together. I should hope that you will retain every right you are not comfortable with relinquishing. 
  

Do some reading.  It's not really acceptable for the leader of a software development project to be unfamiliar with IP.


You've mentioned Breeding Season; that's an instructive example.  Early decisions about IP and profit-sharing had a huge impact on the subsequent growth of the project team, and their ability (or inability) to resolve disputes, trust each other, and develop the game.


It's also important to present a clear value-proposition to your teammates (or candidates).  It's fine to say that "we'll split the revenue evenly", but what happens when someone leaves the project team?  Would they still enjoy residual earnings, or would they get cut off?  If the hiring of another team member reduces the revenue share of each member, then how would you deal with a stubborn programmer who attempts to veto the hiring of an artist (or vice-versa)?


Assigning IP rights to the team is a dubious proposition (because the team has variable membership and weak legal identity).  Assigning rights to a company is more substantial, but it's basically just a roundabout way of assigning the rights to you (assuming that you're the sole proprietor).


But I'm not an expert on this stuff either.  It would be a good idea to do some reading, and talk to an actual lawyer before the project touches money.  Find an agreement that your team can live with, but which also leaves you with enough flexibility to deal with a stubborn (or lazy, or AWOL) team member.

While the game will be text based, I love the idea of having an image as a reference for the characters you are interacting with. 

Do you have any sketches, design documents, or anything along those lines?


If you'd prefer to keep them confidential, then perhaps you might describe how your game would differ from Fenoxo's games.  A programmer could achieve something similar to Fenoxo's Flash UI using various tools (including Flash itself, but it would be silly to launch a game development project using Flash in 2016).  If you're expecting something significantly different (e.g. a fullscreen map, or a paperdoll inventory system, or grid-based tactical combat, or animated sex scenes, etc) then it would be useful to say so.  Even if those things are long-range "stretch goals" which wouldn't be included in the initial scope of the game.


A programmer who is very skilled with ren'py might excel at delivering some game elements (e.g. world map, text formatting, character portraits, VN scenes, save/load) but might struggle with others (e.g. genetics/mutation system, animated sprites, SFX synchronization, etc).  Any details that you can provide w/r/t game features, tone, or scope would help people to determine whether they'd be a good fit for your needs.


If you'd prefer to recruit someone with lots of experience in VNs, or someone with a mixed skillset (e.g. programming + editing) then that would be useful to know.  There's often a tacit assumption that any team member on a text-based game will be fluent in the game's language, but this isn't universally true.  If you're open to hiring a programmer with limited facility in English then you should say so; if you insist on strong written English skills then - again - make it clear.


One final point - sexual themes and fetishes.  You've mentioned a few, but you should try to write out a complete list (and add it to the first post).  If someone is writing code for cross-breeding simulation, you don't want them to suddenly quit the team in disgust when they discover that the game allows the player character to fuck their own offspring.  You need the team to understand and agree with the game's sexual limits from Day 1.

 

[Tanini]

Thank you so much, Stuntcock. I would never have really thought of all of this stuff. 

You should probably consider whether you'd be able to work effectively with someone based in Europe or Asia. 

I think with how my life is currently set up, working with someone from another country would not be an issue as switching up my schedule won't affect anything...

Do some reading.  It's not really acceptable for the leader of a software development project to be unfamiliar with IP.

I will. I feel bad for not seeing how big of a deal it was. 


While the sketches/ designs won't be confidential I'd at least like to make a bit more progress with them before posting them... 


The features I am currently envisioning for Gift of Life are as follows:

• Pregnancy 
  
  Certain monsters should have shorter or longer gestation periods. 
  

[*]Growth 

• 
  Certain monsters should take longer or shorter periods of time to reach maturity.
  

[*]Inventory

• 
  The player should be able to take items, consumables and the like with them. 
  
• The player should be able to feed monsters consumables
  
• The player should be able to use items and consumables on themselves.
  

[*]Stats

• 
  Each character including the PC should have stats pertaining to breeding and combat.  
  

[*]Combat 

• 
  The PC should be able to, with the help of 1 monster of their choice, capture wild monsters. 
  
• Wild monsters should have their own levels and stats. 
  

[*]Mission System

• 
  Npcs should generate pseudo random monster requests for PC to fill and give substantial rewards for completion of missions. 
  

[*]Breeding Traits 

• 
  All characters should have traits that they pass on to their offspring that pertain to breeding.
  
  Dauntless: Monster will mate with monsters who have the Creepy trait. 
  

[*]NPC Affection

• 
  Npcs should grow to like or dislike the PC based on the PCs actions and choices.
  

[*]Leveling 

• 
  PCs and Monsters should grow over time from breeding and from combat. 
  

[*]Mutation

• 
  Leveling monsters should be able to develope traits and skills as they grow. 
  

[*]Save/Load

[*]Character portraits. 

• 
  Each NPC and monster type should have at least one portrait.
  

[*]Bestiary 

• 
  There should be a substantial in game database that the PC can access which details the nuances, behaviors, eating habits, and other details of each monster the PC encounters.
  

I would prefer to work with a programmer who has a decent grasp of the English language.

 

[wrdmnr]

I like this project, but as a programmer I have to agree with Stuntcock.


If i were to accept this kind of project, i'd be very busy making an engine at the start, then have nothing to do for the rest of the development.


Furthermore this game seems to be alot of very boring work that could be spent on making more interesting things, like my current pet project: PMDEoS multiplayer version

 

[Tanini]

I like this project, but as a programmer I have to agree with Stuntcock.


If i were to accept this kind of project, i'd be very busy making an engine at the start, then have nothing to do for the rest of the development.


Furthermore this game seems to be alot of very boring work that could be spent on making more interesting things, like my current pet project: PMDEoS multiplayer version

Does that mean that instead of working for an extended period of time and receiving the patreon support, you'd prefer to simply be paid and credited for the engine and any additional work you might be asked to do after the fact during development? Or were you saying something else that I missed?

 

[wrdmnr]

Does that mean that instead of working for an extended period of time and receiving the patreon support, you'd prefer to simply be paid and credited for the engine and any additional work you might be asked to do after the fact during development? Or were you saying something else that I missed?

I would be fine with a small cut, depending on how complex you would want the engine to be. I don't work on secondary projects too fast through(its not like its my job to program random stuff for people). I have built a simple text adventure engine in flash before(I posted it here to test, but it got removed) but I wouldn't recommend it as flash is pretty much an ancient relic by now.

 

[Tanini]

Honestly, I don't know how complex what I'm asking for really is. Looking at what I want to be able to put into the game it seems to be on par with CoC for requirements. If you can provide an engine that allows for those things to happen, then I'm more than happy to give you a "cut". 

 

[wrdmnr]

Ofcourse it would be free if you'd get an already existing engine, just sayin'

 

[Tanini]

If I settled for an existing engine and began flailing myself at it only to find out it did not support something that I wanted to implement, I would be back at this point looking for a programmer. I don't like the thought of running in circles. I'm willing to pay what is necessary to avoid needless idiocy on my own part. 

 

[wrdmnr]

That's a risk you're always taking, simply not explaining to me what this engine needs to do can lead to months of extra programming.

 

[Tanini]

However, if you made the engine, it's a lot easier to ask you to do that extra programming and pay you for it. With the other option I have to find a programmer who works with the existing engine and ask for their help. If they refuse or can't do it for one reason or another, then everything completely stops. 


So while I'm always taking a risk, I'd like to keep that risk as low as possible. As you say, not explaining to you what the engine needs to do could lead to a lot of unneeded work. If I do, properly explain to you what I need the engine to do, then I have an engine that fits all my needs and I needn't worry over the programming for centuries when I want to be writing or working on the art.


I'd like to thank you for talking about this, by the way. It is very helpful.

 

[wrdmnr]

No problem man, just remember that I haven't yet accepted this project. I will still need more details, and I think you would like to see some actual progress before you stop looking for other programmers. Its cold but so is business.


I would recommend going private messaging from now on, as we're spamming your thread to death

 

[Tanini]

Oh, I haven't forgotten. I was simply using "you" because you said "me". It's a habit.


What details would you need in particular?