Intentional or bug: a small bunch of quick questions

[Burnerbro]

I have encountered several interactions that I suspect might be a result of a bug, and one I'm almost sure isn't, but want to ask about just in case:

1) Ring of Pure Thought doesn't block Viviane's sexul dream, and wearing both Ring of Pure Thought and Ring of Temptation (love its silly mod name btw) seems to cancel the effects of both when it comes to sleep. Is either of these things a bug?

2) Atugia's night time confession passes the time to the next day within the scene and describes the next morning on the same page. This leads to skipping any dreams (including visiting Kyoko) and any level ups you might have ready, even though the Champ and Atugia are described as falling asleep and waking up. Masturbation blocks this scene from happening and allows what I assume a casual nightly visit scene fire instead, seemingly out of sequence. Same question: bugs or nah?

3) Currently, if you recruit Atugia via the new route where she ambushes you in error and gets bopped, you never get to have the conversations you would have had with her in the barracks if you were to recruit her by sexing her headless body. However Atugia and the Champ both treat those conversations as though they have happened, referencing the information you get from there in her companion dialogue. I assume this is a result of some content for that route simply not being implemented yet, but wanted to ask just in case.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

No because she kinda forces her way in to collect some of your "essence".
No it's not.
It most likely hasn't been implemented they are busy with Mino City.

 

[Burnerbro]

Add another point to the list above: the temporary sterility status effects block the fertility and virility boosting transformations. Not sure how I feel about that.

 

[Burnerbro]

Two more interactions to throw onto the pile: The Champ never gets tired from excercising (which I hope is intentional) and no amount of changes to thickness or tone in either direction result in changes to Raw Belly Rating. So if you start the game with a dad bod gut, you will never lose it. A bit of a bummer, that.

 

[Alypia]

no amount of changes to thickness or tone in either direction result in changes to Raw Belly Rating. So if you start the game with a dad bod gut, you will never lose it. A bit of a bummer, that.

This is known. The belly code is a godawful nightmare, though, and untangling it in this instance has been very difficult.

Please give Balak all your love.

 

[Burnerbro]

Coders, staff and volunteer alike, always get a big thumbs up from me.

There is one thing I have noticed that gave me an idea on how to potentially handle cganges to the belly rating not related to pregnancy and cum-stuffing related. Essentially, since the new Appearance screen already has a bit of code that recognises and outputs a name for the Champion's current build (plush, bear, amazonian, slender, etc.) you can tie chages to the raw belly rating to it. Anyone in the knowshould feel free to tell me why this is a bad/unfeasable idea, though.

 

[Burnerbro]

Two more peculiar interactions in the newest patch that left me asking the question in the thread's title:

1) Sense combat action seems to have been changed and is now guaranteed to succeed - which is a very welcome change IMO. However the tooltip text was left unchanged and talks about trying to learn about the enemy's weaknesses, which means that a new player can have no idea that it is quaranteed before using it a couple of times.

2) Healing powers aren't greyed out when there are no friendly targets that are missing HP. Same goes for resolve heals.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

2) Healing powers aren't greyed out when there are no friendly targets that are missing HP. Same goes for resolve heals.

Just means you have the ability to negate damage.

 

[Burnerbro]

Sadly, you can't overheal in this game, so every HP restored above 100% of the character's curent max is wasted. Which means that unlike before, you can now more easily waste a turn on a misclick. Not a big issue in the grand scheme of things, but still.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

It was a joke.

 

[Burnerbro]

My bad, man.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Your good, now uh you changed your profile picture.

 

[Raginmund]

1) Ring of Pure Thought doesn't block Viviane's sexul dream, and wearing both Ring of Pure Thought and Ring of Temptation (love its silly mod name btw) seems to cancel the effects of both when it comes to sleep. Is either of these things a bug?

I'd say that it probably should be classified as a bug, because it's a scene that is very explicitly a dream - although not from the PCs end, so I guess it'd be debatable (as the Kiyoko Astral Plane scenes are not technically classified explicitly as dreams either).

Although I think there are a few issues with the scene itself, as it's a non-consensual scene that the PC gets no prior warning about (as with the TF effects of the Witch's Outfit Set), and has no option to avoid (even if one immediately places the Witch's Outfit in their storage the scene will still proc that night). It also occurs every year on Halloween, although that specific event one could say is acceptable, as one could always turn off Holiday Events in the Options / Settings.
However, in it's current form that scene seems to be the only way that one can interact with Viviane further, as well as access the Alchemy Powers and her shop menu. Gating all of said NPC's content behind such non-consensual sex scene is a bit questionable in my opinion. That would be like being forced to sex Kiyoko upon finding the Amulet of Union (if Kiyoko didn't have specific preferences that is) - instead of it being presented as an option to the PC.

I'd argue that whilst the Viviane dream scene itself might not necessarily be classified as a bug, there could possibly be some other way to interact with her, such as being able to find her "walking-house" after one has found the Witch's Outfit. And through that manner, it could then be possible to avoid that specific dream scene altogether.

Now granted, I understand that others might not have issues with the scene itself - and for all intensive purposes, neither do I - but it'd be nice to have some options when it comes to specific interactions in this game; if at all possible.

2) Atugia's night time confession passes the time to the next day within the scene and describes the next morning on the same page. This leads to skipping any dreams (including visiting Kyoko) and any level ups you might have ready, even though the Champ and Atugia are described as falling asleep and waking up. Masturbation blocks this scene from happening and allows what I assume a casual nightly visit scene fire instead, seemingly out of sequence. Same question: bugs or nah?

Yeah I'd definitely say that this would be classified as a bug. It also looks like this has already been reported in this bug report thread.

3) Currently, if you recruit Atugia via the new route where she ambushes you in error and gets bopped, you never get to have the conversations you would have had with her in the barracks if you were to recruit her by sexing her headless body. However Atugia and the Champ both treat those conversations as though they have happened, referencing the information you get from there in her companion dialogue. I assume this is a result of some content for that route simply not being implemented yet, but wanted to ask just in case.

As for this one, I'm not too sure. It could be as you say, simply content not being implemented yet, or it could simply be an oversight. Good job spotting it nonetheless.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

1) Ring of Pure Thought doesn't block Viviane's sexul dream, and wearing both Ring of Pure Thought and Ring of Temptation (love its silly mod name btw) seems to cancel the effects of both when it comes to sleep. Is either of these things a bug?

She forces her way in with magic she says that you have so much magic around you she just had to find out.

 

[Raginmund]

She forces her way in with magic she says that you have so much magic around you she just had to find out.

Right, but the reasoning supplied doesn't change the fact that Viviane's dream is quite literally classified as a dream within the games scope - something that is indicated on the wiki (albeit the page itself does indicate at an overhaul pending for said page).
This would then differentiate this dream scene from Kiyoko's Astral Plane dream sequence (referenced by this: "Dreams do not block special events, such as visiting Kiyoko, which is a separate check altogether." on the wiki) - meaning that Viviane's dream technically should be blocked by the Ring of Pure Thought.

Outside of that, if we look at it from a logical point of view - what would be the point of having a supposed item (Ring of Pure Thought) that can prevent sex related dreams (which, in reference to the above, Viviane's dream scene definitely counts as), except one - and it being non-consensual and actively more canon than any of the other sex related dreams in-game (by the extent that it is actually referenced by said NPC as being canon)?
In my opinion that would definitely defeat the point of having said item in the first place, because then a precedent would be set that this item that supposedly is preventative for certain things (all sex related dreams) can have exceptions for specific content / in specific circumstances (like a dream being more canon than others) - which overall detracts or devalues the item in those niche cases.

EDIT:
Going by the wiki link supplied above, it would seem that (unless the check has changed) Viviane's dream scene is bugged in any case, as it seems to proc even if the PC has stored the Witch's Outfit in their storage upon initially finding it.

 

[WolframL]

You also can't prevent Kas invading your dreams following the encounter at the Wayfort as it's a scripted event. I imagine that one reason Viviane's dream is an exception to the Ring of Pure Thought's power is that seeing it is required in order to get her to appear in the waking world in the first place.

 

[Raginmund]

You also can't prevent Kas invading your dreams following the encounter at the Wayfort as it's a scripted event. I imagine that one reason Viviane's dream is an exception to the Ring of Pure Thought's power is that seeing it is required in order to get her to appear in the waking world in the first place.

Yes, but that is directly related to the main plot (which in this case, it is not).
Did you read my post earlier on in this thread? Gating content for Viviane behind that scene is questionable in my opinion.

 

[WolframL]

Did you read my post earlier on in this thread? Gating content for Viviane behind that scene is questionable in my opinion.

I did not read that post, but that would be something to take up with Balak because she's his character and that's how he apparently wanted it done back when he wrote her as a recurring character. I have no idea if he'd consider changing that in the future but I'm pretty sure it's 'working as intended' right now.

 

[Raginmund]

I did not read that post, but that would be something to take up with Balak because she's his character and that's how he apparently wanted it done back when he wrote her as a recurring character. I have no idea if he'd consider changing that in the future but I'm pretty sure it's 'working as intended' right now.

Right well I guess I'll tag Balak below in this post then, if that's an okay thing to do.
Aside from that, I'm still not entirely certain that the Viviane dream scene is 'working as intended' as you put it, with reference to this edit I had for one of my previous posts:

EDIT:
Going by the wiki link supplied above, it would seem that (unless the check has changed) Viviane's dream scene is bugged in any case, as it seems to proc even if the PC has stored the Witch's Outfit in their storage upon initially finding it.

---

Greetings @Balaknightfang, I was hoping if you could potentially give some insight to these particular queries:

1. Would Viviane's dream related scene be classified as a dream within the games scope; and if so, should it technically be blocked by the Ring of Pure Thought?
   • Potential reasons as for why I'd think it should possibly be blocked (as stipulated prior within this thread):
     • It functions as a regular dream, as in it does not block special events, such as visiting Kiyoko in the Astral Plane.
     • It is (or at least initially was) listed as a regular dream on the wiki, leading one to think that it potentially should function as all lustful / sex related dreams do whilst the Ring of Pure Thought is equipped (being blocked).
2. Could there possibly be a way to interact with Viviane further (accessing the rest of her content, such as Alchemy Powers, dialogues, sex scenes and shop) without requiring the PC to have seen the dream sequence, as it's a non-consensual scene that the PC gets no prior warning about (as with the Witch's Outfit Set TFs) nor option to consent (much unlike Kiyoko's option to provide her with "chi").
   • A possible way I mentioned earlier in this thread:
     • Possibly being able to find her "walking-house" after picking up the Witch's Outfit. Assuming the PC does not proc the dream (either by not sleeping, or by having the Ring of Pure Thought block the dream - if that change was to be implemented), the PC could possibly encounter Viviane in the Old Forest to be consistent with the First Encounter scene currently in place. The "Dreams" dialogue option would not be necessary in that scenario, and the dream scene could possibly be avoided that way (outside of Halloween).
       • Possible issues with the above would be the lack of consistency or clarification by Viviane that the PC is like a "beacon of magical energy". A scene / line stipulating that would then possibly have to be included in place of her mentioning that in the "Dreams" dialogue option.

I understand that the above may seem to be nitpicking, but the aspect of gating all of an NPCs content behind a non-consensual scene (especially when it's actually canon, as confirmed by Viviane) does lead me to question it, hence doing so in this manner.
As mentioned prior, I don't necessarily have any issues with the scene as of itself (as with the Holiday Filter in the Options / Settings menu, it can be avoided that way during Halloween), but I would of thought that there would be another option for accessing all of Viviane's rather expansive content outside of doing that dream scene. As it stands, if people do not wish to interact with that specific scene, they would then miss out on a lot of content for this specific NPC (as well as the companion sets gained via interacting with her), as well as a bevy of special effect items.

 

[Burnerbro]

Grease affecting flying targets - intentional or not? If it is the former, some of that Power's descriptions would ideally need to be tweaked to make more sense in that context.

 

[Raginmund]

Right well I guess I'll tag Balak below in this post then, if that's an okay thing to do.
Aside from that, I'm still not entirely certain that the Viviane dream scene is 'working as intended' as you put it, with reference to this edit I had for one of my previous posts:

---

Greetings @Balaknightfang, I was hoping if you could potentially give some insight to these particular queries:

1. Would Viviane's dream related scene be classified as a dream within the games scope; and if so, should it technically be blocked by the Ring of Pure Thought?
   • Potential reasons as for why I'd think it should possibly be blocked (as stipulated prior within this thread):
     • It functions as a regular dream, as in it does not block special events, such as visiting Kiyoko in the Astral Plane.
     • It is (or at least initially was) listed as a regular dream on the wiki, leading one to think that it potentially should function as all lustful / sex related dreams do whilst the Ring of Pure Thought is equipped (being blocked).
2. Could there possibly be a way to interact with Viviane further (accessing the rest of her content, such as Alchemy Powers, dialogues, sex scenes and shop) without requiring the PC to have seen the dream sequence, as it's a non-consensual scene that the PC gets no prior warning about (as with the Witch's Outfit Set TFs) nor option to consent (much unlike Kiyoko's option to provide her with "chi").
   • A possible way I mentioned earlier in this thread:
     • Possibly being able to find her "walking-house" after picking up the Witch's Outfit. Assuming the PC does not proc the dream (either by not sleeping, or by having the Ring of Pure Thought block the dream - if that change was to be implemented), the PC could possibly encounter Viviane in the Old Forest to be consistent with the First Encounter scene currently in place. The "Dreams" dialogue option would not be necessary in that scenario, and the dream scene could possibly be avoided that way (outside of Halloween).
       • Possible issues with the above would be the lack of consistency or clarification by Viviane that the PC is like a "beacon of magical energy". A scene / line stipulating that would then possibly have to be included in place of her mentioning that in the "Dreams" dialogue option.

I understand that the above may seem to be nitpicking, but the aspect of gating all of an NPCs content behind a non-consensual scene (especially when it's actually canon, as confirmed by Viviane) does lead me to question it, hence doing so in this manner.
As mentioned prior, I don't necessarily have any issues with the scene as of itself (as with the Holiday Filter in the Options / Settings menu, it can be avoided that way during Halloween), but I would of thought that there would be another option for accessing all of Viviane's rather expansive content outside of doing that dream scene. As it stands, if people do not wish to interact with that specific scene, they would then miss out on a lot of content for this specific NPC (as well as the companion sets gained via interacting with her), as well as a bevy of special effect items.

Well, I guess there won't be any clarity with regards to the above two queries.
Sorry @Burnerbro, I didn't mean to derail your thread with such queries.

 

[Burnerbro]

Sorry @Burnerbro, I didn't mean to derail your thread with such queries.

No worries, dude, there weren't all that much activity going on here to derail, heh.

 

[Burnerbro]

Charge interacting with duel wielding the way it currently does (with full double attacks made against all targets) surprised me quite a bit in light of some seemingly far more obvious choices (like pretty much all of Thief damage powers that you'd think work well with two light weapons) providing none of their bonuses to the off-hand weapon.

Then my party got dumstered my Sigrune using this quirk to its fullest potential, and now I'm confused and salty at the same time,

While we are on the topic of double weapon weirdness, Nakano currently gets two full riposte attacks againsts duel-wielding Champs and Brint using his Giant's Reach to double attack. Which doesn't make much sense in the context of the ability's combat text.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

While we are on the topic of double weapon weirdness, Nakano currently gets two full riposte attacks againsts duel-wielding Champs and Brint using his Giant's Reach to double attack. Which doesn't make much sense in the context of the ability's combat text.

It's easier to block and respite the champ but imagine trying that with a Minotaur swinging a mace and battleaxe at full strength.

 

[WolframL]

Blade Block talks about 'flawless' countering of attacks, so it's probably designed to count dual-wielding attacks as two separate attacks. even though it's only a single action. Either that or something something Maximum Weebery.

 

[Burnerbro]

It's easier to block and respite the champ but imagine trying that with a Minotaur swinging a mace and battleaxe at full strength.

I mean, it's the same as Nakano somehow managing to struggle unarmed against the Champ and his companions even if one of those companions is Brint or Arona, who realistically could just end him then and there with one good kick to the head, and certainly knock him out cold easily. The power of fox god and anime was on his side, apparently.

 

[Lone Wolf115]

The power of fox god and anime was on his side, apparently.

Never underestimate the power of anime.

 

[wery12345]

Also adrenaline is a hell of a fucking drug.