Gunpowder Weapons

[cobra]

Been playing alot of EU4 lately and just had a thought... One of the great cliches of the medieval fantasy genre is a ubiquitous "No Guns" rule for whatever reason weather its because their considered dishonorable or the ingredients for black powder is rare to non-existent. I know the game is set in a dark/bronze age setting but it should be within the mean of making very basic match-lock arquebuses.

This is just more of a brainstorming exercise on possible implementation but in game terms, ((Obviously more advance cultures should probably get such a thing.. maybe make it eastern or lost Belharan tech? I'm getting real 40k Dark Age of Technology vibes from that. )) as a ranged weapon an arquebus ball could cause great damage even to opponents wearing armor with the metal tag but have a marginal chance of just missingn completely. Once fired the entire reloading process should take one full turn to complete so it ready to fire for the next and so on and so forth to ephasive how slow reloading this thing is. So with that out of the way, Amy other thoughts?

((EDIT: Man the spellcheck on this new forum software is HORRENDOUS!!!))

 

[Savin]

Guns verboten.

 

[cobra]

Guns verboten.

One of the great cliches of the medieval fantasy genre is a ubiquitous "No Guns" rule

See what I mean? And its coming from a guy who loves his boomsticks. :/

 

[NotYouNorI]

Guns are not a very bronze age aesthetic. If you want gunpowder fantasy setting, go to games with a 16th-17th century aesthetic like anything set in Wahrammer Fantasy or Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Alypia]

I'm getting real 40k Dark Age of Technology vibes from that.

This isn't a Warhammer setting.

The metallurgical and chemical knowledge of Mykenaian Greece wasn't up to making arquebuses or twelve-pounder Napoleons, so neither is that of Savarra in CoC2. Believe it or not, the bronze of Early Modern Europe was quite different from the bronze of the, y'know, Bronze Age.

There might be some other smut game set in an early modern fantasy world, but this ain't it.

 

[Squirrelwagon]

One of the great cliches of the medieval fantasy genre

I'm not going to get into the rest of this, but I will say this: Bronze Age =/= Medieval.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

As much as I love me some boomsticks, guns and cannons wouldn't fit. Crossbows are considered technologically advanced and nobody but the floofs understand that iron is better than bronze. It'd be like having an unlockable gun in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey. At least we have TiTS for all our sexy firearm needs.

 

[Rear Admiral Chimera]

If the denizens of Frost March need guns, they can go to Hawkethorne's gym. Be the change you want to see in the world; be the traveling gun show.

 

[Number13]

Would be interesting to see more crossbows. That is something that has been around since ancient times.

 

[Stupid_Goo]

One could argue that crossbows are medieval guns...

 

[Number13]

One could argue that crossbows are medieval guns...

Much older than that. The oldest known crossbow were bronze ones in China from the 6th century BCE, with handheld ones from the 3rd century BCE. The Ancient Greeks had Ballista's from the 5th century, aka giant crossbows.

 

[Tenalc13]

Been playing alot of EU4 lately and just had a thought... One of the great cliches of the medieval fantasy genre is a ubiquitous "No Guns" rule for whatever reason weather its because their considered dishonorable or the ingredients for black powder is rare to non-existent. I know the game is set in a dark/bronze age setting but it should be within the mean of making very basic match-lock arquebuses.

An acquaintance of mine who specializes in military history would have smashed his face with the facepalm seeing this post.

 

[cobra]

An acquaintance of mine who specializes in military history would have smashed his face with the facepalm seeing this post.

Yeah, i did a little bit more research on this and figured the best a bronze age society would do if they knew the formula of black powder is some kind of grenade. :/ metallurgy wasn't advanced enough for anything else.

 

[Burnerbro]

Some especially crafty mages could create a rough aproximation of a rail gun with the level of magic available in the setting and some elbow grease, propelling a solid metal rod out of an enchanted metal tube using the power of lightning, thunder and awesomeness. Just saying

More realistically, the only crossbow we have in the game atm doesn't seem particularly compelling to use, or well representative of the advantages and drawbacks a heavy draw weight crossbow would have compared to other ranged weapons. So OP's idea of having a weapon with an extremely powerful alpha strike potential that will require one or several turns of inactivity afterwards sounds like something worth exploring to me - provided it doesn't violate some of the game's design principles and won't end upbeing a source of major headache for the coders.

 

[WolframL]

More realistically, the only crossbow we have in the game atm doesn't seem particularly compelling to use

The Bessy Mauler isn't compelling to use? Have you seen what it can do with the right setup?

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

But why penetrate with an arrow or bullet, when you can penetrate with a peen? Make love, not war.

 

[Burnerbro]

The Bessy Mauler isn't compelling to use? Have you seen what it can do with the right setup?

I admit I haven't done too-too much testing of high level ranged builds, however looking at the available powers and the stats of both the player and the enemies, it seems that crits and accuracy are at a premium, especially since excess accuracy essentially turns into additional crits. By contrast, raw weapon damage and penetration are less useful - and Bessy only has 10 base damage over the good bows, the poor old girl.

As for amor penetration, the fact that Sundering skills are relatively easy to come by and that 25% of your damage is guaranteed to get through makes it a much smaller concern. If the amor was capable of making one more or less untouchable for any weapon that isn't designed with good penetration in mind - or aimed with extreme precision into the weakspots and gaps - then it would have been invaluable. See: Warhammer, both tabletop and Total War iterrations.

Aaaand now I am imagining Arona and Hretha going full hooligan on Champion's ass, accosting them about lacking the "propa choppa". I wonder if a dream of something like would be too much for even the silly mode.

 

[Paradox01]

One of the great cliches of the medieval fantasy genre is a ubiquitous "No Guns" rule...

Is it, though?

 

[TheShepard256]

Is it, though?

Yep.

 

[Paradox01]

Yep.

I know what a trope is. Cobra called "no guns in fantasy" a "cliche", which is very different.

Only historians (professional or amateur) know that firearms of some type or form have existed since the 13th century. Ask any normal person if King Arthur's knights used cannons and they'd laugh in your face.

Maybe the concept is a trope, but it certainly doesn't reach the level of cliche. These are FANTASY games we're talking about here, not historical reenactments. If a developer doesn't want a specific technology to exist in his/her world, THEY DON'T HAVE TO INCLUDE IT. I never heard anyone bitch about Conan never using a minigun.

 

[Savin]

Ask any normal person if King Arthur's knights used cannons and they'd laugh in your face.

And they'd be right, considering King Arthur was a Romanized Briton in the 500s. The idea that he was a "knight" in medieval plate is the anachronism.

 

[Burnerbro]

I never heard anyone bitch about Conan never using a minigun.

You have reminded me that I haven't re-read Howard's originals in forever. What better way to get into some low-tech fantasy mood before playing CoC2?

Meanwhile his Solomon Kane series might be just what OP is looking for. Plenty of heathen magic gets defeated there through the power of GUN.

 

[cobra]

Maybe the concept is a trope, but it certainly doesn't reach the level of cliche. These are FANTASY games we're talking about here, not historical reenactments. If a developer doesn't want a specific technology to exist in his/her world, THEY DON'T HAVE TO INCLUDE IT. I never heard anyone bitch about Conan never using a minigun.

That why people just use homebrew rules to insert them in their PnP fantasy games that want them... or modding in video games but CoC2 dosen't have modding support so its moot anyway.

 

[Paradox01]

That why people just use homebrew rules to insert them in their PnP fantasy games that want them...

See, I'd see that as the cliche. Why the need to add firearms to a fantasy setting? We never dreamed of asking Gary Gygax to add guns to D&D back in the day.

 

[cobra]

See, I'd see that as the cliche. Why the need to add firearms to a fantasy setting? We never dreamed of asking Gary Gygax to add guns to D&D back in the day.

 

[Gothic Purple Goblin]

As a black mage you get 2 "fire" arms hehehe......sorry not sorry. (fireball ftw)