Funny Happening

Ravioli

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
138
2
So I noticed that I could optimize my little breeding cow character to be even better at breeding by getting the dumbfuck perks and went to work on that. Then I went straight to Syri to pump my int back up. After spamming my 1 key and bringing my int back to 40, I left the bar and this happened! I found it pretty silly so I'm here to share. 

Fr19xFp.png


I got the exact same message spammed over and over again! 
 

Nik_van_Rijn

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
2,407
506
Moscow, RF
So I noticed that I could optimize my little breeding cow character to be even better at breeding by getting the dumbfuck perks and went to work on that. Then I went straight to Syri to pump my int back up. After spamming my 1 key and bringing my int back to 40, I left the bar and this happened! I found it pretty silly so I'm here to share. 

I got the exact same message spammed over and over again! 

Y u full of eggs and not tiny lake princesses? Dishororabru!

Syri really needs a 'stop pestering me, dude' timer ala Shekka. No matter how much she loves spending time with PC, people's munchkining tendencies need to be kept in check.
 
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Ravioli

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
138
2
Y u full of eggs and not tiny lake princesses? Dishororabru!

Syri really needs a 'stop pestering me, dude' timer ala Shekka. No matte much she loves spending time with PC, people's munchkining tendencies need to be kept in check.

I already birthed 12 lake princesses! I'm currently pregnant with 4 Renvra children, and I've birthed those eggs that were also Renvra's spawn. I stopped playing a bit earlier and made sure the character was filled with eggs again. For funnies these are the offspring stats: 

Reproduction Statistics
Offspring
* Total: 322
* Births, Cockvines: 45
* Births, Cockvines, Captured: 4
* Births, Nyrean Eggs, Huntress: 107
* Births, Nyrean Eggs, Renvra: 6
* Births, Nyrean Eggs, Total: 113
* Births, Renvra’s Children: 12
* Births, Venus Pitcher Seeds: 140
* Births, Venus Pitcher Seeds @ Daycare: 83
* Births, Water Queen Young: 12
 

Woider

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Aug 26, 2015
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Because if it's technically legal, we can't help but minmax, even when we don't want to brake immersion, sidestep consequences, or make the difficulty level even lower.

Why MinMax when you can max out everything without cheating?
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
366
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I don't follow. Int doesn't do much for you unless you're techie, except for the few scenes that require you to have it to get access to the content (like Hand So, though there you could save scum, I guess).

Besides, if there was a cooldown timer, you could just wait it out since there's no time limit. It would just be annoying, and even more immersion breaking.
 

Ravioli

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
138
2
I don't follow. Int doesn't do much for you unless you're techie, except for the few scenes that require you to have it to get access to the content (like Hand So, though there you could save scum, I guess).

Besides, if there was a cooldown timer, you could just wait it out since there's no time limit. It would just be annoying, and even more immersion breaking.

Nope! All classes have SOME skill that works off of int. Example: Tulip, the character in mention, is a Smuggler (because she smuggles babies inside her stomach, and cockvines/venus pitchers to other planets I thought this was pretty smart of me). Her Aimed Shot works off of Int, so does Smoke Grenade*. So I have to keep it maxed if I want her to be the most optimal in combat. 

EDIT: Excuse me info was wrong, went to check. Flash Grenade doesn't work off Int, regular Grenade does. 
 
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Ormael

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Aug 27, 2015
6,623
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Nope! All classes have SOME skill that works off of int.

Yet Techs can try go with low int too but either they specials will be as good as trash or will fail almost always whatever they supposed to do.

On that rubs...weren't something like that reported as bug recently or it was something similar but also concerning in some way belly rubs?
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
366
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Nope! All classes have SOME skill that works off of int.

I didn't say it does nothing, I said it doesn't do much. Admittedly I'd forgotten they made SA/AS scale with Int (because that was just silly).

Edit: You could play Techie with just boosting Aim and using Volley for damage. It wouldn't even be much different from how techie normally plays, in my experience.
 
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Ravioli

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
138
2
Yet Techs can try go with low int too but either they specials will be as good as trash or will fail almost always whatever they supposed to do.

On that rubs...weren't something like that reported as bug recently or it was something similar but also concerning in some way belly rubs?

I'm not sure I don't check the bug reports. I guessed that it was already posted so I didn't post there. Funny enough though it didn't proc with any messages about breast swelling or my other pregnancy. 
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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Sep 10, 2015
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Moscow, RF
Why MinMax when you can max out everything without cheating?

Minmaxing wasn't the correct term, my bad. The ability to max out your stats casually and technically without cheating provides a huge temptation for me, and I assume other munchkins as well. 

Besides, if there was a cooldown timer, you could just wait it out since there's no time limit. It would just be annoying, and even more immersion breaking.

It's by no means a perfect solution, just a less radical one compared to Savin's idea of making stats untrainable. IMO that'd give people some incentive to go about their adventuring normally and use that option sparingly. Personally, I like most instances of RPG devs trying to create an illusion of the game world living its own life and not revolving entirely around the PC, but I'm aware that a lot of people just find that annoying.
 
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Couch

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Aug 26, 2015
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Why MinMax when you can max out everything without cheating?

Minmaxing is entirely different from cheating.  When you say "this option looks better than that option", that's minmaxing.  "Oh man, the Toughness feat looks like it really sucks, I'd better not take that" is minmaxing.  "I think I'll find fireball more useful than lightning bolt" is minmaxing.  Any decision between two things is minmaxing.  It is unavoidable as a player unless you're actively trying to make yourself suck, and it's unavoidable as a designer because it's impossible to perfectly balance every option.

What you can do as a designer is control how much better X is than Y most of the time, and in this regard TiTS is actually fairly decently designed.  You can clear every challenge as every class without too much more difficulty in one than the others, discounting the period where Tech Specialists were gimped by the lack of good energy weapons.  Mercs are generally better than the other options, and ranged mercs are better than melee mercs, but you're not suffering for not picking that option.

Similarly, you can max out all your stats, but this doesn't make strong builds particularly stronger.  Stats are capped, and as long as you have 40 Aim and all the range perks your merc is going to steamroll everything regardless of how many points he has in any other stat.  It does, however, make what would otherwise be cripplingly weak builds much more viable.

In fact, I would argue that removing stat training would make the game less balanced rather than more.  It actively penalizes melee characters, who need Aim to hit things in addition to Physique to do damage, and even more so characters who don't make optimal class feature choices, while having no real impact on characters who build optimally.
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
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In fact, I would argue that removing stat training would make the game less balanced rather than more.  It actively penalizes melee characters, who need Aim to hit things in addition to Physique to do damage

Melee characters don't need Aim to hit things any more than ranged characters need Physique to deal damage. I would almost say it's the other way around: melee characters don't have much use for Aim, while ranged characters may need Physique to escape grapples and to resist stuns (the nyrea praetorians were somewhat more challenging for my techie with her Physique of 2).
 

Ravelordnito

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Sep 17, 2015
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I really don't see the problem with int training not having a cooldown at the current moment in time, all the other stats are maxable with only moderately higher investment you just need to buy a life pass at gym and hotkey dance yourself between your ship and the gym a dozen times, The exhaustion mechanic has pretty much zero impact on your ability to max all your stats if you are willing to waste your time grinding in a smut game that is already faceroll easy if you don't gimp your build.

Similarly, you can max out all your stats, but this doesn't make strong builds particularly stronger.  Stats are capped, and as long as you have 40 Aim and all the range perks your merc is going to steamroll everything regardless of how many points he has in any other stat.  It does, however, make what would otherwise be cripplingly weak builds much more viable.

I agree with this. there isn't really a point in stopping players from maxing out all their stats in the current game environment because it doesn't really offer any real advantages. If you only dump your points into your damage stat and maybe willpower you can easily steamroll all current content with your other stats at base.

Maybe in the future when/if combat becomes significantly deeper and more challenging then maybe some balancing would be useful (though I still don't see limiting stat training as particularly important), Until then worrying about anything beyond the bare minimum of balance (like having endgame options for Energy weapons) is a waste of time on a system that will probably be overhauled in a year.
 

Klaptrap

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Aug 27, 2015
436
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Melee characters don't need Aim to hit things any more than ranged characters need Physique to deal damage. I would almost say it's the other way around: melee characters don't have much use for Aim, while ranged characters may need Physique to escape grapples and to resist stuns (the nyrea praetorians were somewhat more challenging for my techie with her Physique of 2).

I'm fairly confident only mercs really need physique, smugglers can use reflexes instead (which is usefull for all builds) and techies have that energy shock.

Also, I'm not too happy about the whole 'mercs are so good in combat they don't need/deserve ooc stuff' opinion that seems to make the rounds. That's a lousy way to look for balance in the classes.
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
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I'm fairly confident only mercs really need physique, smugglers can use reflexes instead (which is usefull for all builds) and techies have that energy shock.

Smugglers can use Reflexes to escape grapples, but not to resist stuns. Techie's Static Burst doesn't work against "grapples" where the enemy isn't touching you (like the nets that nyrea use) and anyway comes online way too late. However, my point was that Physique is more useful for ranged characters than Aim is for melee characters.
 

Couch

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Aug 26, 2015
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Melee characters don't need Aim to hit things any more than ranged characters need Physique to deal damage. I would almost say it's the other way around: melee characters don't have much use for Aim, while ranged characters may need Physique to escape grapples and to resist stuns (the nyrea praetorians were somewhat more challenging for my techie with her Physique of 2).

Huh, that's surprising.  You're right, Physique is used for melee accuracy.  Still, I should hope the salient point is clear: characters aren't getting any real gain from maxing their stats if they're already built "correctly", while those who've made worse choices get a bump towards parity if they boost their base stats so they can at least make full use of the abilities they picked despite the lack of harmony.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

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Sep 10, 2015
2,407
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Moscow, RF
Huh, that's surprising.  You're right, Physique is used for melee accuracy.  Still, I should hope the salient point is clear: characters aren't getting any real gain from maxing their stats if they're already built "correctly", while those who've made worse choices get a bump towards parity if they boost their base stats so they can at least make full use of the abilities they picked despite the lack of harmony.

If we can grind all stats up to the level cap, than a Jack-of-all-trades type of characters doesn't pay a s much in terms of their damage for the additional versatility. Smugglers benefit from maxing out both offensive stats the most, since they have a good, condition-free disabling move based on each of them. However it's the defensive capabilities of the PC that becomes really unbalanced in case of their stats being maxed out. A Tech Specialist that has good dodge, stun and grapple resists and Willpower to shrug off any mental effects is practically unbeatable by any foes that aren't 7 levels higher than them.

My biggest concern though is stat checks and challenges outside of combat. There aren't that many of them in TiTS right now, but I hope there will be more. They are a big help in shaping one's playstyle and playing as a master-of-all-stats can really hamper the experience, for me at least.
 

Couch

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Aug 26, 2015
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I would argue that having good stun and grapple resist is important, because being grappled and unable to break out of it is currently a death sentence with not much you can do about it.  Techs can do it at the cost of Energy if they have that ability learned, but since they're also the only class with no Energy recovery this is a much harsher cost for them than for anyone else.
 

Ravioli

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
138
2
And suddenly my thread about silly thing I found became a thread about game balance. So since this is MY thread let me give MY opinion! 

This is a porn game! I play it for the porn! As long as the writing is great, I'll never care much about the combat and stick to the sexyness. So I think what FenCo need to aim for is a balance where all classes can clear the game with a slight challenge. No class should steam roll, no class should have to fight a Tarrasque. After that, who cares if a Merc is better than a Smuggler? The rest is something that is argued so much in DND. F L A V O R!

I want my character to be a smuggler cow breeder moo. So I'll do that. I want my main Steele to be a badass cat girl gun Mercenary. Sure I'll do that! In a text based game, I think flavor is the most important. And as long as from the flavor side we have everything we need to make the game enjoyable, let combat be simple. That's cool with me at least!

We should instead discuss the best way to optimize fertility and pregnancy speed to get the best breeding cow ever seen. 
 

Fully Automated

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Oct 11, 2015
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I would argue that having good stun and grapple resist is important, because being grappled and unable to break out of it is currently a death sentence with not much you can do about it.

Well, I think grapples weaken over time (so your fifth try to break a grapple is more likely to be successful than your first), so if you can tank the hits/lust for a while you will get out. It's a pretty neat design (if I'm not just reading the code wrong). 

No class should steam roll, no class should have to fight a Tarrasque.

If you didn't defeat the pirates in Stellar Tether, you may have to fight the Tarasque once ship combat is in.
 

Ravioli

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Aug 26, 2015
138
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If you didn't defeat the pirates in Stellar Tether, you may have to fight the Tarasque once ship combat is in.

Well I mean like a literal Tarrasque. As I was writing that I knew someone was going to make a dumb joke about the ship =/ But I use the Tarrasque as an example of a creature that is stupidly hard to beat (in DND)
 

Couch

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Aug 26, 2015
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But Tarrasque is stupidly easy to beat. It's just a big dumb beatstick that can't even fly.

The best Tarrasque rewrite I ever saw was the one that made it the Stone Dragon the martial maneuver of the same name was named for and inspired by.  This meant it was a master of the discipline, which made it much more flexible in combat, and that it had a massive aura that made it so nothing within a few miles of it could fly by any means.  This did a huge amount to fix it being beatable by a level 5 wizard spamming melf's acid arrow.