Corruption feels like a pointless morality system

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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It feels like corrupt paths are only really there for the sake of being there. Not even for fun, or to make an interesting choice, but just there for if the player wants to be a dick for no reason. Hell, there's practically negative value associated with full-on corrupt path stuff. Sure, smaller one-off corruption scenes may be understandable, as they're pretty much just "immediate sexual gratification with no downsides aside from corruption," but the few big things like the Centaur Village or the Hive don't really feel like there is a reason to do it, and overall corruption has a negative effect as it increase libido (which, sure, it makes you tease better, but it also makes you more fragile against resolve damage) and brings you closer to a point where you can get bad-ended.

Often, games with moral choices and systems offer you two ideas: The good, hard path, which has fewer rewards and is harder, or the evil, easy path, which has greater rewards and doesn't need as much effort. Like what the Little Sisters of Bioshock would have been if it weren't for how you get basically as much ADAM from the combination of the giftbaskets and the saving as you did from harvesting, along with a ton of extra upgrades/rewards from said baskets. An interesting moral choice is one where the upsides may outweigh the evil. Yes, it's bad to send a kid into a nuclear reactor, but if that prevents an explosion then it's worth the harm.

The most interesting choices are not black and white. If the choice is "nuke a town for profit" or "help every villager for 15% less profit than the other option," then basically everyone will go with choice #2. If the choice is "abandon the plague shelter and get a load of valuable supplies" or "deliver the supplies and end up with a net loss," it's more interesting because the evil option makes things much less stressful, so there's incentive to abandon your morals because everything is going to shit. Potentially more interesting than that is "Someone is stealing water from a farm run by an unliked government. They're using this water to set up their own farm to feed people who don't wish to become part of the hegemony. To retain that water, one of their number killed someone. If you report them, they loose the water and the killer gets punished. If you don't, the poorly-paid farmers on the government farm will end up loosing their job, and the killer never faces justice." Yes this example is lifted straight from New Vegas, but it's a good, interesting conflict. You don't think of it as just good or bad, because both choices bring people harm. There may not necessarily be a greater reward for one than the other, but it's more interesting because you have to think, and decide, which path you think is the more moral path.

So, after all of that, how is CoC2? Most corrupt actions are the equivalent of the first option, if that. You fuck Etheryn with a too-large cock, doing an evil action for a short reward that's not even really worth the harm. You fuck a demon for the joy of the sex scene, and honestly it's not that worth the corruption when you can just fuck anyone else really. I don't expect any real moral grays, the game is literally about corruption being presented as evil and the corruption system is distinctly black and white. So for an interesting moral choice, you'd expect them to be the second type, where there's a great reward for the evil that you do, particularly if it's a great evil. So why is it that Quint's "Fuck Off" choice gives you 8 points of corruption? You're gaining absolutely no reward, beyond removing him from the game, plus it doesn't really seem like that evil of a choice for someone with a healthy level of skepticism for the cult. I never chose "fuck off," but it's absurd that that has suck a great corruption gain while actively draining value from your playthrough. Also, Infrith. If you fuck her when you shouldn't you get 7 points of corruption, and get locked out of content in the future. It's even more absurd that telling Quint, someone who initially seems to be very suspicious and openly having participated, quite happily, in the cult activities, that you're not going to help him any extra is considered to be worse than raping Infrith while Hretha begs you to stop. I get why this is a heavily corrupt action, but you're getting substantially less by doing this corrupt action than you would by being pure.

But those two aren't really as important as the big dungeon choices. One of them makes things harder and the other removes a massive amount of content. The Taldahs fight is pretty difficult, and you do it instead of a super-easy conversation battle. It also removes all post-quest content with Taldahs and Ahmri, hell Ahmri gets captured so you technically don't even get to finish the quest. Of course, the post-quest Taldahs stuff is just "Please marry my daughter and pound her pussy into the ground posthaste" but still, there's quite a bit of Ahmri content that's currently unavailable to the corrupt path. And that's fine, but there's nothing to replace it with. Not only is the corrupt path harder, and will probably be harder in the future given that the quest can't even finish in the current version for the corrupt path, but it gives negative reward. You loose out by taking the harder path. This means that not only is it not an interesting moral choice, but there is, in essence, no reason for its presence. So why is it here? Why is it a choice? Similar with the Hive. You loose out on an entire companion by taking the corrupt path, and what do you gain to replace it? A brainless bimbo with no real use. And you don't even really get that exclusively on the corrupt path, since the pure path has a brainless bimbo who does have use as the strongest resolve damage dealer in the game (apparently). Not only does the corrupt path not make anything easier (you have to have already beaten the dungeon to make the choice), but it only subtracts value. The bimbo companion is, paradoxically, locked behind the pure path, despite how someone would only take the corrupt path for Bimbazzy.

So, I think that's why I don't care for them. They do not exist to act as an interesting moral choice. They don't even serve to benefit the theme of corruption being selfishness/greed/desire, because corruption seems to be taking what you want through potentially immoral methods/means, but these corrupt choices do the exact opposite. Sure, it's nice to go like "being evil never prospers, being good always wins" but if you're going to do that then there's no point in even having corruption exist as a mechanic, because being purity just gives you everything.

This has nothing to do with how much corruption content there is. It has to to do with how interesting it is, as a mechanic and as a moral choice system. Perhaps in the future there will be more interesting corruption content, but I can't exactly give my opinion on a hypothetical future. Right now, though, it feels like corruption content is just here to be here, as a hypothetical choice you could take on your 15th playthrough because you're curious about what it's like to gain absolutely nothing and sabotage all of your efforts. Corruption feels like it's supposed to be big central mechanic, since you're always shown a counter of it and which you're basically fighting Kasyrra over as a battle of good and evil, but right now it just feels pointless and practically vestigial.
 

Emerald

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Jun 8, 2016
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Also, Infrith. If you fuck her when you shouldn't you get 7 points of corruption, and get locked out of content in the future.
And it's only one point under Quin's Fuck Off thing, technically it's still a huge gain, it's not as big a difference as you're making it. (It'd probably get complained about here still if it was 10 points instead of 7, because "corruption black/white" thing that's going on in this post idk)
Also not surprised that the rapey bastard gets less compared to those that aren't being rapey bastards. Idk the ideology to Corruption stuff compared to Pure, but doing that stuff idk why consequences aren't expected.
 

Starstruck

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Dec 11, 2015
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So why is it that Quint's "Fuck Off" choice gives you 8 points of corruption? You're gaining absolutely no reward, beyond removing him from the game, plus it doesn't really seem like that evil of a choice for someone with a healthy level of skepticism for the cult.
Healthy skepticism is all good, but telling a repentent Cultist to fuck off and fend for himself is a little more than that, it shows a callous disregard for his regret and the hardships he's going through evading all the corrupt forces pervading the Harvest Valley
Also, Infrith. If you fuck her when you shouldn't you get 7 points of corruption, and get locked out of content in the future.
Raping Infrith after victory is absolutely worthy of 7 points of corruption (if anything I think it should be higher) and getting locked out of her content from that point onward. Especially when Hretha begs you to spare her apprentice in exchange for her body and service. As to why the corruption gain for this is lower than telling Quin to get lost, I'm guessing its because if you were willing to do this? Then you were already on a downward spiral and have probably been for some time.

Whereas Quin, Sugo's and Eryka's cases, just to name a few. Represent the first steps.

The Taldahs fight is pretty difficult, and you do it instead of a super-easy conversation battle.
That's more of a Meta vs Roleplay thing, are you playing a callous, merciless, and/or corrupt Champion? Full of brimstone and righteous fury? Then you go with Door #1 and fight him, If you're not however, say you're a dashing rogue out to win the princess' heart, a truly good soul who chooses to believe that anyone is redeemable, or just a speedrunning metagamer looking for the fastest resolution. Then take take Door #2 and talk him down

The bimbo companion is, paradoxically, locked behind the pure path, despite how someone would only take the corrupt path for Bimbazzy.
This on the other hand, I wholly agree with, but it's also understandable that Azzy would have no inclination to adventure if you go for the corrupt resolution of Land of Honey, because then she is content to stay in the hive with Liaden and does not understand the urgency of stopping Kasyrra, or more likely she welcomes the corruption she brings. Furthermore the Hive would still corrupt which means her mother can't be reasoned with to let her fly the coup even if she did have the inclination to do so.
 
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Wint3rRyd3r

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Feb 14, 2021
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Also not surprised that the rapey bastard gets less compared to those that aren't being rapey bastards. Idk the ideology to Corruption stuff compared to Pure, but doing that stuff idk why consequences aren't expected.
Raping Infrith after victory is absolutely worthy of 7 points of corruption (if anything I think it should be higher) and getting locked out of her content from that point onward. Especially when Hretha begs you to spare her apprentice in exchange for her body and service. As to why the corruption gain for this is lower than telling Quin to get lost, I'm guessing its because if you were willing to do this? Then you were already on a downward spiral and have probably been for some time.

I can't speak to anything else, but for the orc thing I think it's because they're introduced as rapey bastards. "Do unto others" and "turnabout is fair play" are mindsets and viewpoints many have. It can come across as excusing the orcs' actions but condemning the player for the same thing even if assaulted by the orcs first. And I wonder how many of their victims begged Hretha and the rest of Kervus not to be raped and taken as slaves. Her concern would be touching if it weren't so damn hypocritical. That said, to play devils advocate, Infrith is a virgin and only fights to help Hretha. So at the time of the fight, Infrith has not done the things the rest of Kervus has and isn't in a position to enable them. And Hretha doesn't get mad at getting loss sex herself. She's only mad if it's Infrith. And that is valid since Infrith is, as far as we know, innocent.

But it also feels like the corrupt stuff is only there to keep in with the original or because Savin wants a demon queen waifu. Which I can't blame him for. I'm subscribed to "Mage & Demon Queen" too after all. But a lot of corrupt routes are dead ends and/or a net negative. So why bother unless your roleplaying or it's funny at the time?

And it's only one point under Quin's Fuck Off thing, technically it's still a huge gain, it's not as big a difference as you're making it. (It'd probably get complained about here still if it was 10 points instead of 7, because "corruption black/white" thing that's going on in this post idk)

I'm gonna complain because 7 is an odd number. It couldn't have just been an even 8? It makes me saddened that I must either ignore Quin, accept him with open arms, or get 1 point prior to get an even 8 corruption before locking myself up Sanders's holy closet.

Healthy skepticism is all good, but telling a repentent Cultist to fuck off and fend for himself is a little more than that, it shows a callous disregard for his regret and the hardships he's going through evading all the corrupt forces pervading the Harvest Valley

We have no reason to believe those regrets and hardships are real or that he's actually repentant. He still acts like a cultist half the time. From the champion's perspective this guy conveniently crossed paths with them and has a sob story and begs to be taken into Hawkethorne. Maybe I'm just distrusting, but that sounds like an infiltration plan. And Cait's rage against him is valid. I don't remember him ever showing remorse or guilt. Just him talking about how he left because of how he was affected. Not Calla, not the people the Chanter almost certainly brainwashed, just Quin is all that matters to him. Even in his introduction. It's hard to trust someone so suspicious.

As for Turbo BimbAzzy not being available, I think that's understandable. The choker is a more subdued corruption than being thrown into a vat of horney hornet honey. The difference in concentration makes it understandable that corrupt path Azzy is too horny mind broken to do anything approaching fighting. Whereas collar BimbAzzy isn't an extreme exaggeration of a bimbo, and just a normal bimbo. And as we all know, your everyday bimbo can fight.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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And it's only one point under Quin's Fuck Off thing, technically it's still a huge gain, it's not as big a difference as you're making it. (It'd probably get complained about here still if it was 10 points instead of 7, because "corruption black/white" thing that's going on in this post idk)
Also not surprised that the rapey bastard gets less compared to those that aren't being rapey bastards. Idk the ideology to Corruption stuff compared to Pure, but doing that stuff idk why consequences aren't expected.
I mean I'd not be complaining about the cost if it was 10 because the cost part was mostly just incredulity at it being lower than Fuck Off. I'd still be complaining, but the main point was that it's shown as a very clearly evil act, and the game's morality system makes that very clear to you, but also, you get less than you would if you didn't do it.
Healthy skepticism is all good, but telling a repentent Cultist to fuck off and fend for himself is a little more than that, it shows a callous disregard for his regret and the hardships he's going through evading all the corrupt forces pervading the Harvest Valley
Certainly. I myself in the past argued that the reason why you gain corruption from it is because of that callousness. I more thought that 1: the corruption cost for it is far too high for the act, and 2: You're being told you're committing evil for an act which also causes you to loose out on content and potential rewards.
Raping Infrith after victory is absolutely worthy of 7 points of corruption (if anything I think it should be higher) and getting locked out of her content from that point onward. Especially when Hretha begs you to spare her apprentice in exchange for her body and service. As to why the corruption gain for this is lower than telling Quin to get lost, I'm guessing its because if you were willing to do this? Then you were already on a downward spiral and have probably been for some time.

Whereas Quin, Sugo's and Eryka's cases, just to name a few. Represent the first steps.
Yes, I do think the act is worth a lot of corruption, particularly in fitting with what corruption represents. A good bit of my post may be someone confused, but the overall point was supposed to be about corruption as a moral choice system. As a moral choice, the fact that it's evil and the fact that you loose out on so much content compared to what you can gain in the moment makes it an uncompelling moral choice. In the narrative, it makes sense to both gain corruption and lock us out of content, but from a gameplay standpoint, from the viewpoint of it as a moral choice, the fact that it locks you out of content makes it so that the choices are "be a dick and loose out" or "be kind and gain much greater rewards." As a choice, that's not compelling, it doesn't make you think about which you want to go with normally. Though also I do still think it's ridiculous how the corruption gain from being a raping dickhead is lower than the corruption you would gain for doing what Cait wants you to do in the Quint encounter.
But it also feels like the corrupt stuff is only there to keep in with the original or because Savin wants a demon queen waifu. Which I can't blame him for. I'm subscribed to "Mage & Demon Queen" too after all. But a lot of corrupt routes are dead ends and/or a net negative. So why bother unless your roleplaying or it's funny at the time?
This is absolutely my main thought. It feels vestigial, most of the corruption stuff does very little or even takes total value away from you, so there's no real compelling reason to fall into corruption.
 

EcchiKitty

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Jul 16, 2021
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For a simple mechanic that wouldn't need most of the quests re-written... what if Corruption itself gave you potential bonus? A couple cult weapons that deal extra damage if you corruption is above a certain level. Trade X points of corruption for mutated skin that acts like extra armor, tentacles that offer a chance of a bonus attack, freakish muscles for extra damage. High corruption, and Imps stop attacking you, cult members become peaceful... spitballing ideas to make Corruption an option without needing to change too much in game content.
 
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Animefan666

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Sep 6, 2020
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I figure the system will play a greater role further down the line. Like, right now it's pretty inconsequential and anything that depends on it is more for RP purposes such as not being able to use the Sanctified Gladius if you're too far gone or the Lureling Eye if you're just too much of a goody two-shoes. Perhaps it'll have a more meaningful impact at the end than it did in the first CoC where you can max out your corruption and still be the hero or vice-versa.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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For a simple mechanic that wouldn't need most of the quests re-written... what if Corruption itself gave you potential bonus? A couple cult weapons that deal extra damage if you corruption is above a certain level. Trade X points of corruption for mutated skin that acts like extra armor, tentacles that offer a chance of a bonus attack, freakish muscles for extra damage. High corruption, and Imps stop attacking you, cult members become peaceful... spitballing ideas to make Corruption an option without needing to change too much in game content.
Honestly, that would be interesting. The idea of actually providing a substantial reward for gaining high corruption, even if it's not tied directly into the corruption events, scenes, endings, etc. would someone solve it. I'd still prefer if individual examples of corruption events had it so that there was a compelling reason in the situation itself to act immoral (aside from sexual titillation on the scenes with a lower corruption gain), but having larger rewards for corruption gain (aside from increased libido, which only really is an upside for champs using resolve damage and is a downside for those who aren't) could be a sort of inverse Bioshock. Bioshock's moral choice was ultimately pointless because the evil path was only better at the start and the good path gave much greater rewards, effectively nullifying any point in picking evil. Having something where there's special equipment or effects (I don't think, like, perks and stuff, but there's already equipment that interacts with corruption) tied to having greater corruption could incentivize acting evil, being a bit corrupt, to have access to greater power. I don't think it should be too powerful over the non-corrupt version, of course, since you'd still want to be fair to those unwilling to bend, but still having the corrupt gear be slightly more powerful could make it a more interesting choice.

I don't know if it would necessarily be a good one, but it certainly seems like it could be interesting and solve my major issue without needing much rewriting work, assuming this was implemented well.
 

Emerald

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Jun 8, 2016
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For a simple mechanic that wouldn't need most of the quests re-written... what if Corruption itself gave you potential bonus? A couple cult weapons that deal extra damage if you corruption is above a certain level. Trade X points of corruption for mutated skin that acts like extra armor, tentacles that offer a chance of a bonus attack, freakish muscles for extra damage. High corruption, and Imps stop attacking you, cult members become peaceful... spitballing ideas to make Corruption an option without needing to change too much in game content.
That sounds like needing something to gain good benefits and I thought that is what the devs do NOT want.
 

Kizrah

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Jan 17, 2021
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Corruption feels like it is tacked on as an after thought to most things because it usually is. The majority of writers don't really have any interest in writing corrupt content, so they do it much less than normal content. that's why there was so much content jammed in Tel'adre and the bizaar bazaar was just a dump of completely random shit. its usually added out of a sense of obligation, or they have an urge to write something more corrupt than usual cause of maybe some inspiration or desire to mix things up.

TLDR, yeah there isn't as much as normal stuff, but don''t expect that to change any time soon. That being said, Khor'Minos should have a significant amount of it due to variance in the storyline based on your choices, and the fact that Wsan is the guy most known for moraly dubious content and he is in charge of it.