Concerning Voln
- Thread starter Asmo
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There was a rush of new forum members coming in specifically to witch hunt him. It was brought on by a set of facebook posts to an artist group of some kind calling m0RV out for failing to pay for artwork that was in his game, but the evidence was shaky. Some of them talked to m0RV about the situation and seemed to conclude that the issue was resolved. However, not all did and more new people kept coming in who either weren't reading the previous posts or didn't agree with them. I think the thread got deleted just to stem the tide.
I didn't pay close attention to what was going on, only saw the start and the end. The thread was deleted before I had a chance to read it in detail, so there's a good chance I've got the details wrong.
I didn't pay close attention to what was going on, only saw the start and the end. The thread was deleted before I had a chance to read it in detail, so there's a good chance I've got the details wrong.
It seems to be more than that. See the comments. (in patreon) This is a warning about this developer.
They say he blackmail the artist, little sad to see... full story
They say he blackmail the artist, little sad to see... full story
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Goddamn it... the creator of Eternal Feast showcased his game a few weeks ago (something about aiding new developers through a Patreon group thing) and its still in their front page. I'm going to warn them so they don't end up getting associated with this crap.
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In this particular case the posted logs showed m0RV trying to talk the artist out of the originally agreed upon payment, trying to lower the price, because he claimed he wasn't happy with the quality. When the artist in question disagreed, he basically made the argument into 'either you accept the lowered payment or I file a complaint with Paypal and you will see no money at all'. All this in a situation, when he knew the artist was in financial trouble to begin with.
I am not going to judge the quality of the work and wether or not m0RV had good reason to be cross with this artist, but the way he handled himself in the visible part of the conversation did not reflect good on him. And think of the mob what you will, but before these people showed up and made the issue public m0RV was still using the artwork he was no longer willing to pay for in his first trailer and on the website of his project.
Hopefully by now both parties have found a workable agreement so that they can burry the hatchet.
Please do not make judgements on the situation based on the story posted by one of the belligerents. That's what lead to the witch hunt in the first place.
Wow... if the accusations turn out to be true then it sure sucks. Voln didn't interest me but I did like the artstyle it had, the kind of work that was done by someone who knew their stuff and put a lot of effort into it. It would be extremely ironic if the game's highest point turned out to be a robbery. What's amazing in all this is that I have a vague memory of reading the author's posts back in the day and I left with the impression he was someone reasonable with his methods... but I guess one shouldn't just a book by its cover, huh?
I do not want to be unfair, although the evidence is real I did not see the m0RV thread before being deleted. And I did not see him giving any explanation. I think if the accusations and evidence are false, it would be natural to see him defend himself, right?
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I don't think it matters. Wild speculation or making decisions based on what's available isn't going to help or change anything. It will just lead to problems and arguments and either nothing happening or people going after one another in a witch hunt. A lot of forums ban witch hunting just to avoid the finger pointing and arguments, regardless of whether or not someone is actually at fault.
I was browsing through another forum and came across some a few things related to m0rv/Voln, some of which have already been posted here, others new. Apparently this is the same person that got cheated but with a more in-depth explanation and proof of being blackmailed. This is the thread where he wrote a business proposition for interested writers with sever underpay and few guarantees. The original post has been deleted and the thread closed but the responses remain and they are unanimously negative towards his "offer".
The post I got this from also stated he is using the stolen art to make money on the side but no source as to where they got that piece of information so... take it with a pinch of salt. There's a claim about him "bragging about winning the PayPal disputes against the artists", which seems to hold true based on Ita's screenshots. I went to his DeviantArt page and there someone suggested for him to make a list and pay those he hires beforehand. He stated that is what he does but two situations didn't pan out right 1) a girl that went silent on him for months and 2) a "venomous Malay man who has nothing better to do than to troll him". You can check out his DeviantArt page and browse through the replies yourself, the one I quoted is dated May 2nd, second page. If you want more information, there's a thread dedicated to Voln here.
Anyway this is the best I could scrounge up. Not sure how relevant all of this is but I figure the more information we have the clearer the picture will get. Its just unfourtuante that, for all the speculation and hearsay about, there's still no official response from him or any kind of justification for his decisions regarding these two individuals he hired.
------------------------------ My opinion on the issue ---------------------------------
The possibility that they didn't fully held up their end of the bargain or didn't met his expectations is just as possible as him shrinking on their payment, maybe the former led to the latter... but that's just speculation from my part. Also, I personally see nothing wrong with that business deal for writters, I mean, the rates are low, sure, but ultimately the choice to accept the deal (or not) was in their hands. He basically wanted writers who would write for the sake of it, the money was just an added benefit. Not sure if anyone else agrees but I feel like that was pretty obvious. I also think everyone's free to post why they don't agree with such a deal but the a line needs to be drawn when they start harping about it. No need to paint the other party as the scum of the Earth just because you don't agree with their business practices.
Nevertheless, blackmailing and dropping smiley faces after knowing he won the PayPal disputes feels scummy to me.
The post I got this from also stated he is using the stolen art to make money on the side but no source as to where they got that piece of information so... take it with a pinch of salt. There's a claim about him "bragging about winning the PayPal disputes against the artists", which seems to hold true based on Ita's screenshots. I went to his DeviantArt page and there someone suggested for him to make a list and pay those he hires beforehand. He stated that is what he does but two situations didn't pan out right 1) a girl that went silent on him for months and 2) a "venomous Malay man who has nothing better to do than to troll him". You can check out his DeviantArt page and browse through the replies yourself, the one I quoted is dated May 2nd, second page. If you want more information, there's a thread dedicated to Voln here.
Anyway this is the best I could scrounge up. Not sure how relevant all of this is but I figure the more information we have the clearer the picture will get. Its just unfourtuante that, for all the speculation and hearsay about, there's still no official response from him or any kind of justification for his decisions regarding these two individuals he hired.
------------------------------ My opinion on the issue ---------------------------------
The possibility that they didn't fully held up their end of the bargain or didn't met his expectations is just as possible as him shrinking on their payment, maybe the former led to the latter... but that's just speculation from my part. Also, I personally see nothing wrong with that business deal for writters, I mean, the rates are low, sure, but ultimately the choice to accept the deal (or not) was in their hands. He basically wanted writers who would write for the sake of it, the money was just an added benefit. Not sure if anyone else agrees but I feel like that was pretty obvious. I also think everyone's free to post why they don't agree with such a deal but the a line needs to be drawn when they start harping about it. No need to paint the other party as the scum of the Earth just because you don't agree with their business practices.
Nevertheless, blackmailing and dropping smiley faces after knowing he won the PayPal disputes feels scummy to me.
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Lurker here. Honestly doubt we'll see anything substantial come out of Voln.
Like, there's hearsay but then there's also evidence he really was blackmailing and using artists' work without their permission. Considering the art was the biggest draw to the thing and the artist he was using for that isn't even with the project anymore, my interest's already dropped like a rock. The blackmail part and using smilies to brag about the paypal thing kills the rest. Logistically, the project looked great but I was scratching my head on how he was going to fulfill but now the guy doesn't have any artists and no writers who seem like they want to stay so it isn't worth sinking much into
Plus, he took shots at this site despite being more than happy to take patreon money from here. That feels sketchy in itself
Like, there's hearsay but then there's also evidence he really was blackmailing and using artists' work without their permission. Considering the art was the biggest draw to the thing and the artist he was using for that isn't even with the project anymore, my interest's already dropped like a rock. The blackmail part and using smilies to brag about the paypal thing kills the rest. Logistically, the project looked great but I was scratching my head on how he was going to fulfill but now the guy doesn't have any artists and no writers who seem like they want to stay so it isn't worth sinking much into
Plus, he took shots at this site despite being more than happy to take patreon money from here. That feels sketchy in itself
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Regardless of any cries of witchery new game developers have to prove that they have not only devotion to their projects but the means to manage them. Before he had a demo he was asking for Patreon money, which is an obvious red flag, but in this early development stage he's already running into drama and not displaying much in the way of project leader skills.
So the important thing is not who's at fault but that this one, if it takes off, is likely going to be haunted by issues like this.
So the important thing is not who's at fault but that this one, if it takes off, is likely going to be haunted by issues like this.
I took a better look at the evidence posted by the artists and decided it was best taken with a pinch of salt, partially because they don't tell the whole tale and also because they confirm a few things m0rv was using in his defense.
That said, I don't like his attitude and I think its in poor taste to diss Fenoxo when he himself came to these very forums to advertise his game just a few months ago. If drama occured in his thread then its kind of his own fault for letting things drag as much as they did without so much of an explanation as to what happened and why. I sincerely doubt his project is ever going to recover from this, hell, I doubt he will manage to do anything with his current identity now... its not just the bad rep he garnered, its the fact he basically wants people to work for him for free.
That said, I don't like his attitude and I think its in poor taste to diss Fenoxo when he himself came to these very forums to advertise his game just a few months ago. If drama occured in his thread then its kind of his own fault for letting things drag as much as they did without so much of an explanation as to what happened and why. I sincerely doubt his project is ever going to recover from this, hell, I doubt he will manage to do anything with his current identity now... its not just the bad rep he garnered, its the fact he basically wants people to work for him for free.
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I'm one of his first backer and hoped it would turn into something good. Now... Wow... 
Thank you for this thread, it explains a lot to me!
When he just announced the game, promising all possible fetishes and content, I was like "hm... really? all of that?".
Project looked too ambitious and it sounded suspicious to me. But then I tried the demo and was surprised of the good art quality. I started supporting him from the very beginning.
Now, when I see all his conversation with the artist, I understand that there is not much to expect from the project. Seems like it was his main (!) artist who made all that beautiful graphics.
And they are arguing about some f..cking 100 bucks?!
If m0RV cannot pay such relatively small amount to his main artist on time, what else to expect? In the messages he says he's broke. Yet, his ambitions and chosen scale are huge.
The way he treated the artist is just ugly...
Thank you for this thread, it explains a lot to me!When he just announced the game, promising all possible fetishes and content, I was like "hm... really? all of that?".
Project looked too ambitious and it sounded suspicious to me. But then I tried the demo and was surprised of the good art quality. I started supporting him from the very beginning.
Now, when I see all his conversation with the artist, I understand that there is not much to expect from the project. Seems like it was his main (!) artist who made all that beautiful graphics.
And they are arguing about some f..cking 100 bucks?!
If m0RV cannot pay such relatively small amount to his main artist on time, what else to expect? In the messages he says he's broke. Yet, his ambitions and chosen scale are huge.
The way he treated the artist is just ugly...
Regardless of whatever happened with the artists, it's kinda clear there's a few things that make things really shaky about this project. As promising a concept this was, he overpromised a lot to begin with, he has a bad attitude, the original artist(s) aren't even apart of the project anymore so no new art on that front, and he's still taking in close to 3 hundred bucks/month and he somehow can't afford to pay people??? Even his last update on the youtube Thread was basically telling people to go to his patreon (despite taking shots at this site in the first place too).
Hopefully something similar managed by someone better comes along since this game isn't a go
Hopefully something similar managed by someone better comes along since this game isn't a go
My main take away from this is that it seems like it's way to easy to take down a project, regardless of the attitude of the dev and whether or not they are to blame for something. If someone posts a convincing enough message in the right place, the project is essentially dead with no hope of recovery because of rampant witch hunting and that group of people jumping on any attempt by the dev to make something. I really hope that if that does happen there will be something that can be done to stop it, without threads having to be locked because of hundreds of hate posts getting put in it from tons of legitimate new accounts being made specifically to witch hunt.
If my years on the internet has proven anything is that a lot of the time people don't care about evidence or reason, they are stubborn in their ways and only seek that which validates their point of view. Mob justice doesn't seek justice, they just want to satiate their bloodthirst and many of them only go along because they want to feel included or because they're assholes who take pleasure on wreaking havoc. What is even the point of going on a witch when we barely know anything of what happened? Situations like these are rarely, if ever, just black or white.
Trying to do justice by ourselves without concrete evidence and both sides of the story can lead to situations where we ended up persecuting / defending the wrong person all along. Actualy what is even the point of partaking in the drama? Is it going to benefit us in anyway? Why do people care so much about what happens on other people's lives? Its their problem, let them solve it. I bet no one in these situations as ever stepped down and apologized to the ones they wrongly accused. Their egos would never allow them to admit they fucked up.
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I didn't ban him, I just hid the original thread whilst everything cooled down. I don't particularly want to involve myself in the middle of something I have no clue about, nor any desire to dig into. Considering how much fucking drama there is about this though, true or not, discussions involving m0RV and their game are no longer welcome here, period.
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