[Calisequest 2 spoilers] Re: Calise and...

Tubten

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Jan 10, 2019
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Because of the Ring mission am I the only one who thinks Kasyrra is Calise?

Whaaaaat no wayyyy u crazy. Ignore the fact she's up and running already after getting stabbed and almost saying a different world's goddess name in caliquest2.

So if you fuck her does your corruption increase? Because naturally it should and would be another reason to tip people off.

Or the fact she's level 10 and has -100 holy resist, instead of something like fire as the nature divine champion.
Making a new thread for this as it might become a discussion. just some thoughts i have on the matter from the "What content would you like added?" thread.


to be fair, (and I'm not saying anyone is wrong here), My own character who is a Pure champion has -25.0 Holy resistance himself, gained from the Tirian Paladin Chestplate which grants -50 Holy resistance.

I think the idea is that Holy armor doesn't need to be protected against Holy weapons, because the only people who would USE Holy weapons would be other paladins / light users, meaning they would (ideally) be on the same side. Plus if your gear is designed to resist one specific type of energy (E.G.) Blight), then it might make sense to trim down the defense on an energy you're much less likely to need to deal with (E.G. Holy). For example a Fly would want to spend all it's time avoiding Frogs. Because Frogs are it's primary opponent. But that same Fly would have no reason to spend any amount of time or energy avoiding other Flies. Because they're both flies, they'd be on the same "team" in most situations.

As for the level 10, the stab, and the "Ma-", i feel like the stab and the level 10 could be explained as just her being a very powerful Paladin, and the "Ma-" could have been a lot of things. a noise of pain frustration on the same vein as "Oof" or "Urgh", an uttering of a different word like "Mother" for "Mother fucker", or maybe she IS from the world of CoC1 and is just a different character who got out a different way. Her interactions with the Minotaurs in Khor'Minos seem to suggest she's been there awhile. so I'm not sure if there's been enough time between Kas' escape from the portal and the events of Khor'Minos to establish this whole identity, even if we assume she went there immediately after being brought into the Marches, which i kind of doubt as she was pretty present up until the events of Winter City. Plus she seems to have a pretty close connection with the king, a representative of whom even comes to see her while she's being treated for the poisoned stab wound.

Under the "Her story" option of her "Talk" menu, it DOES suggest that she might have been around for the Godswar, so it's possible she's got a completely different origin, she does mention Demons attacking her city, suggesting either the Godwar, a "Mages never learn" like the Champion things, or possibly a "The Demons of Mareth attacked a Mareth city" situation.

Really the only think i can think of being suspect is Calise going after the same ring Kasyrra was apparently after for the same reason: To give to the Champion , possibly as a proposal (According to the Demon Cowgirl), which is joked about when Calise gives the champion the ring at the end of the quest. Seems sus, but it could be a coincidence or a red-herring, no idea.

Unless it's already been stated somewhere by word of god that Calise is 100% Kas and i just don't know that, in which case you can ignore the above. Just thought I'd throw in some alternate possibilities.
 

wery12345

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I mean the biggest giveaway is the fact a champion of velun is in a place devoid of nature, something that has been stated makes them much weaker for it. Kas isn't doing any homework on the gods and doesn't know that, she just knows right now they aren't fucking with her.
 

WolframL

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and the "Ma-" could have been a lot of things
It should be pointed out that Kasyrra already swears by Marae's name in the Temple of Sin event, and Calise immediately does a verbal backspace to curse in Velun's name instead, rather than finish the thought. I don't think most people who've just been stabbed are going to correct themselves unless there's some overriding reason to do so, like 'Oh fuck, I almost blew my cover!'.
or maybe she IS from the world of CoC1 and is just a different character who got out a different way.
Savin and Tobs have both said that Kasyrra and Taoth are the only characters coming from Mareth to Savarra. Savin has also said that it's one portal per plane, so until Kas created her own, there's nowhere else for anyone to have come to Savarra from except through the portal that Tollus' cult has been watching for years.
Her interactions with the Minotaurs in Khor'Minos seem to suggest she's been there awhile. so I'm not sure if there's been enough time between Kas' escape from the portal and the events of Khor'Minos to establish this whole identity
She 'happened to be there' when the siege started and we know that Kas has been paying attention to Khor'minos from before the events at the Winter City. The (easily missable) Bad End at the Wayfort has her take you to the 'city of stone' and she was clearly already set up somewhere in the vicinity of KM before we forced her to abandon her plans in WC.

As for her identity, the only person who can vouch for her existence prior to a month or so ago is Sanders and he says he's heard of her but doesn't know her personally. He also doesn't know her name and needs the Champ to tell him that, he just knows that there's a female Velunite paladin that people have talked about who's done things down south. It's possible that Kas has actively stolen the identity of a real person (who may or may not be locked away in Kas' sex dungeon or the like) or possibly she picked a cover identity that's the least likely to be discovered as a fake (not many Velunite clergy in the Undermountain) and is counting on the quarantine situation to keep the truth hidden until she accomplishes whatever her goals are. Between these two options it's also possible that she's planted accounts of Calise (Sanders doesn't say how old the rumors are) in the same way that she's all but stated to have planted word of our heroic deeds in the Winter City in order to get us on the admissions list.

Speaking of 'just happening to be there', Kas arriving in time to save the Champ if you fuck up fighting the demons in CaliseQuest is oh so suspicious. She just happened to decide to check on the progress of a minor part of her operation (which Calise sent you to investigate) right when you happened to be there? Uh huh.
Under the "Her story" option of her "Talk" menu, it DOES suggest that she might have been around for the Godswar, so it's possible she's got a completely different origin, she does mention Demons attacking her city, suggesting either the Godwar, a "Mages never learn" like the Champion things, or possibly a "The Demons of Mareth attacked a Mareth city" situation.
If you've seen Kasyrra explain her story, you'll note that the account that she gives and the account that Calise gives are identical. Also, per her own account Kasyrra was a paladin before becoming a demon and she makes a point of not revealing her original appearance to the Champ even though she's capable of assuming it. Perhaps because they might recognize it?

Also while we're on the topic, Calise's interactions have variations for whether the Champ is on Kas' Romantic path. For... some reason. I'm sure that's a coincidence. And one more thing, it's not visible in the game itself but it's very easy to find by just looking at the files: Calise has currently unused busts where she has golden eyes and a penis. Just like Kas' two known disguises from Winter city and as 'Katherine' the catgirl.
 
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Tubten

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Speaking of 'just happening to be there', Kas arriving in time to save the Champ if you fuck up fighting the demons in CaliseQuest is oh so suspicious. She just happened to decide to check on the progress of a minor part of her operation (which Calise sent you to investigate) right when you happened to be there? Uh huh.
Ahh, i didn't loose to that fight, so i never saw that bit.

If you've seen Kasyrra explain her story, you'll note that the account that she gives and the account that Calise gives are identical. Also, per her own account Kasyrra was a paladin before becoming a demon and she makes a point of not revealing her original appearance to the Champ even though she's capable of assuming it. Perhaps because they might recognize it?
Okay, this is a bit more damning then i had seen then. I've only gone the "Anti-Kas" route so far, so i haven't seen a lot of this.

A lot of good points then WolframL. As much as i like to work with "Assume no until proven yes" with situations like this, it's starting to look like I'm in the wrong here.

Still think it's possible she isn't Kas, the "Ma-" could still have been something else as i mentioned earlier, perhaps she came through the portal a long time ago before Tollus' time, yadda yadda, but those possibilities are starting to look a lot less likely given the information you've provided. the Best possible alternative i can think of is a "She's the human version of Kas / Kas' soul who somehow got away from her and developed it's own identity or something", but even i think that's a stretch.

Well played friend, thanks for the info.
 

PuppyPrincess

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~Snip~

Also while we're on the topic, Calise's interactions have variations for whether the Champ is on Kas' Romantic path. For... some reason. I'm sure that's a coincidence. And one more thing, it's not visible in the game itself but it's very easy to find by just looking at the files: Calise has currently unused busts where she has golden eyes and a penis. Just like Kas' two known disguises from Winter city and as 'Katherine' the catgirl.
Wow I am dense. I totally thought people were joking when I saw it first mentioned...

Kas swooping in to save you if you mess up against the smugglers makes more sense now. Thanks for the write up Mister Loremaster <3
 

Resawar

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Sep 21, 2018
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biggest giveaway is the fact a champion of velun is in a place devoid of nature
The Wiki Does say that Velun's other domain is the "primal forces of the earth". That could be taken to mean the earth as in the ground, even if google says that it means "the substance of the land surface; soil" and if earth part does pertain the ground then I would say that the Undermountain is indeed Grounded as odd as that reads.
 

Number13

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I've only done neutral route Kas......which of course has no where near the amount of content as romantic Kas. I wish we could see more content in other routes.

I'm also curious of this Michael......did he send the assassin knowing that Calise could be Cas?
 

drossbots

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Sep 29, 2020
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Doubt he knew, but I'm pretty certain it's Kas. At this point it'd be a bigger bamboozle for it not to be her.
I've only done neutral route Kas......which of course has no where near the amount of content as romantic Kas. I wish we could see more content in other routes.

I'm also curious of this Michael......did he send the assassin knowing that Calise could be Cas?
 

wery12345

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The Wiki Does say that Velun's other domain is the "primal forces of the earth". That could be taken to mean the earth as in the ground, even if google says that it means "the substance of the land surface; soil" and if earth part does pertain the ground then I would say that the Undermountain is indeed Grounded as odd as that reads.
Cait points out "why is the champion of velun in somewhere with no trees" I assume veluns champs need nature nearby to reach their full potential.


Also calise literally takes a poison potent enough to kill a mino in there prime and walks it off in a day, I'd like to believe a runaway kitsune working with talus would have a pretty fucking potent poison.
 
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WolframL

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I'm also curious of this Michael......did he send the assassin knowing that Calise could be Cas?
Have you done the conversation with Carmen about becoming Champion of Hawkthorne? Michael is Tollus' real name.
 

Resawar

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Cait points out "why is the champion of velun in somewhere with no trees"
Velun's whole shtick does seems to be trees from his symbol to his people the Treants. So it's right to assume it's odd for his champion to be in a place of no trees but it could be believed that Calise draws her power from his other domain "primal forces of the earth", also since she is not a Treant that could back it up. The one thing I know that could prove that my idea is wrong is the fact that Calise has as far as I can see no earth powers and only holy magic unlike someone like Hashat or the others who can learn earth magic.

I do believe that Calise is Kas but I just wanted to make her case since I find her being down there fitting in the first place.
 

zagzig

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It's also worth noting that minotaurs and other residents of Khor'minos swear to Velun, so it's certainly feasible a champion of Velun would swing by a stronghold of Velunite worship on their way to Tychris.

Still totally Kas though.
 

mikethor007

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Also while we're on the topic, Calise's interactions have variations for whether the Champ is on Kas' Romantic path. For... some reason. I'm sure that's a coincidence.
The immediate reason that there's an explicit parser that checks if the player is on the romatic path with Kassyrra while talking to Calise.

That and the scene that plays if the champ tries to give the ring away to Vacia.

To me it looks like the alleged "disguise" is starting to progressively come undone. Sometimes Calise sounds more...violent that I'd expect from a paladin/champion...at least towards non-demons.
 
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Tubten

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Could it be possible that the whole "Calise is Kas's human half" IS the real situation?

If not an entirely separate body, maybe something of an alternate personality situation?

it's a VERY convincing disguise, she teaches you paladin abilities like celestial smite doesn't she? I'm not sure if i believe a Demoness would be willing or able to do that.
 

zagzig

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Could it be possible that the whole "Calise is Kas's human half" IS the real situation?

If not an entirely separate body, maybe something of an alternate personality situation?

it's a VERY convincing disguise, she teaches you paladin abilities like celestial smite doesn't she? I'm not sure if i believe a Demoness would be willing or able to do that.
Tying into this, the Blood Knight in CaliseQuest1 uses holy abilities. So there's nothing inherently stopping demons from using Celestial Smite, Jade Flame, etc.

The Blood Knight is a whole other kettle of fish though, COUGHshestherealCaliseprobablyCOUGH
 
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SmithEK

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Until Savin or another writer confirms I'm not 100% sure Calise is Kas... but it is possible I suppose. I mean how did Kas know to save the champ if she's defeated while fighting the blood knight?? Maybe Calise is Kas true human form. I don't know, no one likes giving straight answers on Discord :(
 
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wery12345

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Because straight answers ruin the fun of being a writer, also why does it matter if kas teaches you abilities that is her weakness, the people from her world were ludicrously strong, like the champ from 1 soloed it all. She believes that no matter what you do you won't be able to win.

Shit she vouches for you constantly which is weird coming from a divine champion (ignoring how annoying it would be to write if it acknowledged the possible ones you can become) about how your this extremely powerful warrior and shit.

And then there's everything in ring of level 7 ability again I'm fucking coping, like why is she so vehement to protect yours, you literally never told her kas wants your soul more than Cait wants to fuck the nearest thing with a pulse(unlike the champ the fucking ghost fucker).
 

WolframL

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To me it looks like the alleged "disguise" is starting to progressively come undone. Sometimes Calise sounds more...violent that I'd expect from a paladin/champion...at least towards non-demons.
Her interactions with Vacia in that quest also give the very strong impression that Calise is about two seconds away from screaming at an idiot subordinate before stopping herself.

She also prominently disappears in at least the grave robber loss orgy (parser oddities aside, probably due to omitting the 'true' from party.compNames) before the actual sex can happen. And speaking of that scene, she says something very telling right before the fight against the quartet: "Why would their queen be interested in robbing burial gold from corpses. I hear she made off with the whole treasury of the Winter City already." Calise, how the hell do you know about that?! This is doubly suspicious since this isn't the kind of thing that Ryn or Elthara is going to advertise and also as Ryn can point out if she's present when you enter KM proper, the Winter City hasn't sent any ambassadors. There is literally no way for Calise to possess that information if she is who she claims to be.
 
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Ireyon

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If that's correct then the succu-cow and mino-boy really fucked up. The wanted to get the ring for Kasyrra and inadvertedly interefered with her attempt to get it. Lol.

Honestly though, if the interpretation of "Kasyrra wants to have actual kids and tries to restore her soul (or at least give herself the ability to create souls for her kids)" is true then her entire behaviour is just utterly hilarious in a self-defeating way.

If she'd just asked for help before going all "evil demon queen" on us she would've been in a much better position to get her goal. Hell, she didn't even have to work with Tollus or admit that she's in any way involved with the abduction of Cait's sister. She could just bullshit a story about getting tricked or being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's not like we can skip over to Mareth and check.

Then again, Tollus likely seemed much more useful as a leader with a powerful cult behind him until we started kicking his bony ass over and over again. (Seriously whoever wrote him is a genius. I never wanted a game NPC dead that badly. He's the perfect mixture of insufferably smug and evil.)
 

mikethor007

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If that's correct then the succu-cow and mino-boy really fucked up. The wanted to get the ring for Kasyrra and inadvertedly interefered with her attempt to get it. Lol.
Par of the course for most of Kassyrra's plans. She "compartimentalizes" a lot.

If she'd just asked for help before going all "evil demon queen" on us she would've been in a much better position to get her goal. Hell, she didn't even have to work with Tollus or admit that she's in any way involved with the abduction of Cait's sister. She could just bullshit a story about getting tricked or being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's not like we can skip over to Mareth and check.
That is not her only goal I believe. She does want to "dominate" the world, or something to that effect.
 

fennecfire

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This is doubly suspicious since this isn't the kind of thing that Ryn or Elthara is going to advertise and also as Ryn can point out if she's present when you enter KM proper, the Winter City hasn't sent any ambassadors. There is literally no way for Calise to possess that information if she is who she claims to be.
You have a point, except it could be river doing that. Whatever his powers are, he's able to spread information before you know you want to, at least according to him, so it's just as likely that he sent the information to khor'minos. In that case, Kasyrra would just have to show up as a paladin and say "yeah, champion of frost, we totally need em, get em in here." Greasing the wheels, so to speak.
 

wery12345

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Pretty sure rivers just a homonculuse for mallach, so he knows a lot before anyone else.(or you know just makes it easier for you to be able to switch things and try to make it easier for you)
 
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VerySexyGrammar

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With all the verbal slips and physical clues, the bust of Calise winking at you with demonic eyes (including a dicked variant) in the game files, and the fact that Kas used to be a Paladin-type, I think the likelihood of Calise being Kas in her original human form is significant. This would also explain why she doesn't want to show you her human form: it would betray her secret identity.

But there's also a lot of evidence against this hypothesis. She hasn't been here long enough (and she's been busy most of that time) to have had anywhere near enough time to have established herself as Calise under her own human form. If it's her, she would have had to steal the real Calise's identity, and I'm not sure how she would have been able to impersonate her so well without first observing her for a long time. Maybe minotaurs are just super dumb?

Kas could simply have corrupted Calise. It wouldn't have taken that much time, it would explain why she hasn't been found out as a fake (it's easy enough to impersonate yourself) and would also explain her bust with the demon eyes. But then she wouldn't be making some of those verbal slips.

In the end, all of the hypotheses have severe flaws.

The explanation is probably going to involve some sort of magic. Like... Kas implanted memories of Calise into the minds of people in the city, going a few months back, and that made it possible for her to just be there one day as an established champion.
 

WolframL

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You're forgetting what Sanders has to say about Calise though: She's spoken of in the south and even he, a former champion in his own right who might be especially interested in the matter, doesn't know her by name or by sight. In other words, Calise isn't from around the area and it's entirely possible that nobody knows her well enough to spot a fake. Remember that the Frost Marches are kind of the ass-end of the world geographically and long-distance travel and commerce are the exception rather than the rule.

Also, Isadora mentions that Calise was there when the quarantine started but she says nothing about her being there for a significant length of time before that. Remember that we slept for over a week after the prologue, giving Kas time to establish herself in KM before anyone realized that there were corruptive fuck-monsters running around and maybe they should lock things down until they can straighten it out, By the time we can run over to the Undermountain entrance the gates have been shut but that doesn't mean Kas didn't have time to set herself up during those early days.

You do have a point about Kas being busy, but she can fly so getting around isn't that big of a deal for her. She can manipulate dreams well enough to be able tp do things like order subordinates around without having to be physically present. We have evidence that she's already established somewhere around KM as early as the encounter with her at the Wayfort and she was ready to leave for there the instant her portal opens. She didn't necessarily need to be in the Winter City the whole time either, especially once she'd corrupted the place sufficiently and the palace was effectively sealed off. Show up for a couple of hours, work on her portal, stick her dick in crazy and then leave to do other things.
 
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VerySexyGrammar

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I suppose it's possible that she just showed up one day claiming she was Calise and no one questioned her claim. At least until news of her "heroic deeds" in the Frost Marches reach the south and the real Calise comes up...

Can't imagine she went there first, though. The Alraune is already corrupt when the champion wakes up, and presumably Ryn has already fled due to the chaos caused by Kas in Winter City, so she would have had to spend a significant amount of time north of Hawkethorne already, and setting up the construction of the portal (assuming it's possible to have it built with only some visits to make sure it's being made properly) and sticking her dick in crazy often enough to keep a hold would have taken considerable time too. Plus all the other random stuff she's doing. Even with the flying (and then presumably teleporting), and having a cult of her own (for which she apparently corrupted many members heavily, personally), she'd have to be extremely productive.

Normally I would say it stretches credibility to far, but considering what game we're talking about... maybe that's an extremely stupid point for me to be making.

Maybe we can just say "Super demon, magic, can do whatever she wants" and just leave it at that. It doesn't have to make sense.
 

wery12345

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Also it's kinda hard to justify raising doubts against a divine champion, your kinda questioning the divine there, which is something a religious bunch of cows wouldn't want to do. I mean fuck if you look at brint he's spooked by foxfire, superstitions are very much a fear of there's.
 

Spidereggs

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If you're going with Romance path for Kas, Calise speaks incredibly possessively of the champ during the quest for someone who she's only worked with for, what, a few days, since the champ arrives to Khor Minos - referring to them as "my [pc name]". The way she's head-over-heels for the champ is just way too sudden for just the interactions you may have had with Calise alone.
 

Magenta Needle

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What's this, some random NPC's stats ?
Who knows, maybe they are real, maybe I made them up, maybe they belong to my champ
It's all a mystery until the game finally answers our queries
 

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wery12345

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Holy resist is the biggest giveaway, it always is. Also her obsessive nature even on hostile route still shines through.