About flying enemies and having wings

Ravenleaf182

Member
Jan 17, 2019
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Currently, if you take sylvonal, you get wings. The description even comments that it can make you fly and has no problem carrying you (I am guessing this changes if your weight changes?) regardless, when you fight creatures like the male zil, you can't reach them with melee. If you have wings, why couldn't you? If you can fly, you should be able to melee flying enemies...
 

Thebiologist

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2017
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It's that way for balance purposes, so wings are not a must in order to min-max. Many enemy encounters depend on flying/boosters/jetpacks to avoid you and having wings to counter that is way to powerful of an advantage.
 
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Evil

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Straight away, I can't see it happening.

One of the core design ideas for the game is that transformatives shouldn't give Steele a combat advantage. That includes wings.

From a practical standpoint, even a Melee-based Steele is going to have counters to flying enemies. Warden shield, the grenade perks and so on.

A zero tolerance on TFs having an effect in combat makes sense. This is makes even more sense when you realise that these items are essentially an extreme form of cosmetic surgery. Someone grows fairy wings, its more of an impact along the lines of Bjork-wearing-a-swan-dress, not "Mwahaha, now my enemies will tremble in fear". Its fashion, not combat.
 
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Darkwarpalg6

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Aug 28, 2015
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From a practical standpoint, even a Melee-based Steele is going to have counters to flying enemies. Warden shield, the grenade perks and so on.
Or... ANY ability at all, like low blow.
LowBlow.jpg
Flying enemies are a joke.
 

Ravenleaf182

Member
Jan 17, 2019
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I actually didn't want any combat advantage, thats why I didn't bring up that you could fly/be not subjected to melee, but I did think you could be able to reach them, I get it disrupts balance, I wouldn't really want that, but it does just strike me as odd that you can fly but you just choose not to when in a fight
 

Evil

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Jul 18, 2017
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Again, consider it from the point of view they just aren't designed for use under combat conditions. Most the actual wings available to Steele aren't leathery bat-like wings, they're bee-like or fairy like, wings that would need to be taken care of on an almost meticulous basis. Now imagine how easy it could be to damage those wings.

Unless they are Gryvain wings (which don't even function properly in human-safe atmospheres), the wings that Steele can potentially gain aren't meant for rigorous use. As I said before, they're essentially cosmetic surgery. They're designed to look pretty or to show off to a crowd, they're not meant for flying around and bopping bees on the head.
 
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Theron

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Nov 8, 2018
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Flight-capable wings do allow Steele to fly, in specific instances:
1. Zil fly up to/down from their village without issue, and so can Steele, if they have wings. 5 Energy to ascend the waterfall, 0 to descend.
2. Myrellion's Deep Caves: 5 Energy to descend, 25 to ascend.
3. There's an out-of-the-way cave on Uveto that Steele can fly into and out of.
(These uses are also much faster in in-game time, if that matters.)
4. There's a quest on Myrellion that allows Steele to sneak into a location if they have wings.
5. Zheng Shi's Shock Hopper automatically does damage over time unless Steele has wings.
6. When running away from combat with wings, the text has Steele flying away. (And I think it does increase escape chance.)

Tossing some ideas out there:
At the moment, there are 4 enemies I know of who fly.
1. Zil Males. They're level 1, so they're quickly rendered a non-threat.
2. The Storm Lancer random encounter. He can be shot down, but it gives him a buff. I've got a melee Tech Specialist with 25 Aim who can hit his Jetpack pretty consistently. Of course, Tech Specialists get a bonus to accuracy based on Intelligence, so that may not apply to everyone.
3. The Storm Lancer Valkyrie at the outpost. She can be brought down with an EMP or ranged Stun, according to the Wiki.
4. Overseer Maike. This one is annoying because she completely regains her shields when she activates her flight and starts spamming Lust attacks. (Compounded by the fact the player doesn't really have many good ways to get Lust defense.) She's technically optional.
Am I missing any?

Of course, if the Storm Lancers can have jetpacks that allows them to fly, why can't we? Why can't we follow Overseer Maike, when she flies up to a rock in the cavern? (Game balance issues aside, obviously.)


Current counters to Flying:
1. Ranged weapons. You have them for a reason. On the other hand, each class can specialize in ranged or melee, and being forced to use the other drastically decreases damage dealt. Are there any ranged shut-downs? (Blind maybe.)
2. Special Attacks. Grenades, Thermal/Gravidic Disruptor, etc.. These do damage based on your stats, and can't be upgraded via gear. They also require Energy to use.
3. Mercenaries can choose Lunge at level 10, which allows their melee attacks to hit flying enemies. No special attack needed, no energy expenditure. It also adds a stagger chance against non-flying enemies and also works with Second Attack.

If flying enemies become more common, I'd handle it like Uveto. I.e, having multiple solutions available for different characters. In addition to wings, have a Jetpack for the accessory slot and maybe an armor. We already have Daedalus Threads, why not Icarus Threads? Maybe have them grant a special attack that allows you make one (two if you have Second Attack) attacks with your perks against flying enemies for some amount of Energy.
 
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Savin

Master Analmander
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Aug 26, 2015
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I genuinely thought the jetpack *did* counter flying enemies. Guess I'll bring that up with Fen next time I talk to him.

Also lol @ special attacks like Low Blow hitting flying enemies.
 
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SoAndSo

Scientist
Creator
Mar 26, 2017
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I genuinely thought the jetpack *did* counter flying enemies. Guess I'll bring that up with Fen next time I talk to him.

Also lol @ special attacks like Low Blow hitting flying enemies.

I like to think it's just a very clever 'yo momma' joke that catches the enemy off guard.